Quantcast
Jump to content

Lugs came loose...

3PuttFever
 Share

Recommended Posts

3PuttFever Enthusiast

3PuttFever

Posted
Posted

Customer came in on April 6th for oil change and tire rotation. Has driven 795 miles. Wheel came off vehicle while driving. Customer claims we're last ones to touch wheels and expresses concern about our work, logically. I've been here two years and this hasn't happened before. Tech who rotated tires is thorough. All six lugs are missing, wheel cap is missing, stud holes in rim are wollered.

 

I can't say why this happened but I have my doubts that the pickup could have driven nearly 800 miles and now has this happen...

 

Will probably have to eat this one but I've put a disclaimer in place regarding tire rotations and returning to our shop after 50 miles for re-torque and check. Any thoughts?

mmotley Proficient

mmotley

Posted
Posted

That's a tough situation to be in. Is it a repeat customer or first timer? Can you see any reason why the customer would lie about who the last person to work on the vehicle was?

 

If you're confident about your tech and see no reason to doubt the customer, I'd eat the repair and offer next 2 oil changes free. If you sell BG product, I'd throw in a road side card with the services too for their peace of mind. You could also tell them you've changed shop policy and now require all wheels to be torqued with a torque wrench or torque stick. All this to earn their trust back and show them how much you appreciate their business.

 

However, if you're suspicious of the customer, I'd probably eat the repair and that's it. No additional recommendations, no freebies, just fix it, double check all 4 wheels with a torque wrench, apologize, thanks for the opportunity to make it right, and be glad it's just a wheel you have to replace and not ending up in court.

  • Like 2
3PuttFever Enthusiast

3PuttFever

Posted
  • Author
Posted

That's what I'm planning on doing. I know the customer and he's not lying to me about it happening and doesn't have any knowledge of anyone else touching his wheels. I have no reason to doubt him but our opinion is that if it left our shop loose it would have worked free well before 800 miles were driven. I have heard of extreme cases where build up corrosion on the wheel can create a false sense of the wheel being snug but wouldn't that same corrosion/buildup have already been there and the same thing have happened? This is a bad break for my shop and team but we'll work through it and hopefully not have it happen again.

  • Like 2
ncautoshop Proficient

ncautoshop

Posted
Posted

I've experienced this a couple times but never one coming all the way off. From my experiences, the main culprit causing one to come loose is corrosion between the wheel and rotor/drum. Ford alloy wheels seem to be the worst. Obviously if it was left loose that's another discussion. If you left it loose they would have heard a knocking like sound as the drove away. Even with small jobs like tire installation the vehicle get a minimum of a 5 mile test drive!

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

  • Like 1
ncautoshop Proficient

ncautoshop

Posted
Posted

We use torque sticks at initial installation and then make two passes with a torque wrench, test drive and recheck at the end of test drive.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

lmcca Collaborator

lmcca

Posted
Posted

its 98% that the tech left them loose.

 

how come no other wheel lugs are loose due to corrosion, aluminum wheels etc?

 

You need to watch your techs when they do this to find out the issue. We too had this happened and i watched the same tech do the next one, now he didnt leave that one loose too but what this guy did was he placed a wheel on the car then just spun the lug nuts on by hand. Then he went to the next wheel and did the same thing and on to the next. So, most likely our guy got distracted and left one of those not tightened thinking he had already tightened that one. Customer drives and they start to loosen.

 

Now we watch them randomly to ensure they dont do this, we actually have a policy that states that you tighten the wheel before going on to the next wheel, he just forgot or just didnt want to do it that way.

 

anyway, good luck.

3PuttFever Enthusiast

3PuttFever

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Our process pre-wheel falling off was twice with the stick then test drive. Now we're double-checking with torque wrench after the stick and I've put a statement on invoices to return in 50 miles to have them checked again. This truck isn't washed often, or at all, and I also believe that corrosion caused this to work loose. The other three wheels were at spec and tight when it came back. Luckily, the customer was very understanding and we took care of him.

  • Like 1
  • 4 weeks later...
alfredauto Experienced

alfredauto

Posted
Posted

We had one come off a Ford Explorer after 700 miles. I torqued them with a torque wrench. I think there might have been an issue with the wheel lug nut seat was screwed up after 200k miles who knows, what I do know it cost me a wheel bearing assy, 6 lug nuts, and one new wheel. Plus I got threatened with a chargeback and a couple lawsuits even though we did the comeback repair for free and there was no injuries or property damage (except the wheel and studs which we covered).

 

Wheel offs are my nightmare. I tell everybody "you need to check the lug nuts after 25 miles we do it free" and it's on the repair orders but nobody checks them.

  • Like 1
  • 3 months later...
Junior Collaborator

Junior

Posted
Posted

A couple things to note here

 

One, factory or aftermarket wheels? Remember that many aftermarket wheels use nut/bolt mating patterns that differ from factory so whenever there is a non stock wheel on the car always check. Offer to sell the customer the correct ones if they are wrong and if they decline make sure its noted on the RO.

 

Two - There are a lot of comments here on corrosion. This is a super common problem especial here in the northeast where the roads are salted. If we have any trouble at all getting a wheel off, the hub and wheel are cleaned and coated. The wheel should slide on and fully seat with NO EFFORT. If the nuts/bolts are pulling the wheel in when remounting a wheel then something is wrong and it must be corrected.

p.s. - don't forget to charge for it.

 

Three - electric impacts, unreliable, use a wrench. We usually just use the air, not the best method but the only time I've run into an issue is if someone relied on the electric impact or didn't clean the wheel.

 

 

Joe's method is the best and most thorough. I wish I had quality control like that. Maybe some day.

tyrguy Collaborator

tyrguy

Posted
Posted (edited)

It happens. I'm fanatic about records so yes I have file on this. In the last 11 years we have had 20 instances of loose wheels. Sounds like a lot but we are talking 15 to 20k wheels off and on a year so the % is really low. Anyway, of those 20, 5 actually resulted in a wheel coming off. The rest were all just loose. The miles from service to problem was 20 to 7002 miles with the average being 1616 miles. Only 8 were under 500 miles and only 3 were under 100 miles. 4 were over 3000k miles. We hand torque every wheel and the guys are pretty good about cleaning the corrosion on the mating surfaces. There is no doubt that the 8 under 500 miles were probably our fault. From 500 to 1000 miles it starts to get questionable and I really don't consider those 4 over 3000 miles our fault. However, if the customer believes it was our fault it's best to just handle it and apologize. Non of the wheel off instances resulted in an accident, just some body damage. Over half the time no repairs are necessary. The other half we might have to change some studs or buy a used wheel. Again, it happens. Don't beat yourself up about it.

Edited by tyrguy
  • 2 months later...
HarrytheCarGeek Experienced

HarrytheCarGeek

Posted
Posted (edited)

Who does your annual calibration for torque wrenches?

 

We run 3 per shop minimum, and it cost about $160 per year from Snap-On (for the 3). I used to use GE but they went overboard.

Edited by HarrytheCarGeek
FROGFINDER Rising Star

FROGFINDER

Posted
Posted

Cleaning wheel hub surfaces, inspecting lug studs and nuts for wear, checking for tsb's, torque with torque wrench, road test and recheck torque, document recheck warning in 25 miles on invoice and have customer initial solved these issues for us.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Available Subscriptions

    See all Subscription Plans

  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

    • Joe Marconi
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      By Joe Marconi in Joe's Blog
         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.

  • Similar Topics

    • Joe Marconi
      How Do You Define a 5-Star Customer Experience?
      By Joe Marconi

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • Riccardo
      In a car, how do you approach a tire with a bubble in the sidewall?
      By Riccardo

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • Changing The Industry
      Welcome to our live show!
      By Changing The Industry
      Welcome to our live show!
    • carmcapriotto
      Failing at Retirement: Building Eight Shops in Eight Years [THA 486]
      By carmcapriotto
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA TRACS, Today's Class, KUKUI, and Pit Crew Loyalty Watch Full Video Episode Carm Capriotto talks with Matt Curry and Judy Curry of Craftsman's Auto Care about building one of the automotive industry’s most respected multi-shop operations twice.
      After growing Curry’s Auto Service to 10 locations and retiring in 2013, the Currys returned to the industry with a new vision, launching eight Craftsman’s Auto Care locations in eight years. Matt shares his role as the visionary leader driving momentum and ideas, while Judy explains how operational discipline, marketing, and customer experience keep the business grounded and scalable.
      The conversation explores their “5 Ps” philosophy: People, Policies, Processes, Procedures, and Profits, along with their commitment to employee development, strong culture, customer transparency, and community involvement. The Currys also discuss how Digital Vehicle Inspections and an intentional customer experience helped them earn nearly 10,000 five-star Google reviews.
      What You’ll Learn
      How Matt and Judy Curry scaled multiple successful shop operations Why leadership balance and “staying in your lane” matters The “5 Ps” framework for building a strong shop culture How employee investment drives long-term success Why transparency and DVIs build customer trust How culture and customer experience fuel growth and retention
      Sustainable growth in automotive repair comes from more than technical expertise. It requires intentional leadership, strong systems, a healthy culture, and a commitment to both employees and customers.
      Matt and Judy Curry, Craftsman Auto Care, 8 locations, Virginia Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Today's Class Optimize training with Today's Class: In just 5 minutes daily, boost knowledge retention and improve team performance. Find Today's Class on the web at https://www.todaysclass.com/ Thanks to our Partner, KUKUI Stop juggling multiple marketing tools. KUKUI’s integrated platform delivers 4x better website conversions, automated follow-up, and real-time ROI tracking. Get industry-leading customer support with KUKUI at https://www.kukui.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Pit Crew Loyalty You’re probably tired of chasing new customers who never return. We understand. Pit Crew Loyalty ends the one-and-done cycle, turning first visits into lasting, reliable revenue at https://www.pitcrewloyalty.com/ Connect with the Podcast: Visit the Website:https://remarkableresults.biz/ Subscribe on YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto Follow on Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/ Follow on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ Follow on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club:https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmasters Join Our Private Facebook Community:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976 Join our Insider List:https://remarkableresults.biz/insider All books mentioned on our podcasts:https://remarkableresults.biz/books Our Classroom page for personal or team learning:https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom Buy Me a Coffee:https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm Special episode collections:https://remarkableresults.biz/collections
      The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcastwith Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion.https://remarkableresults.biz/ Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Zwith Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life.https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ Business by the Numberswith Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest.https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/ The Auto Repair Marketing Podcastwith Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level.https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/ The Weekly Blitzwith Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching.https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/ Speak Up! Effective Communicationwith Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size.https://craigoneill.captivate.fm
          Click to go to the Podcast on Remarkable Results Radio
    • carmcapriotto
      The AI-Driven Auto Repair Leader: Using Technology as Your Strategic Thought Partner [RR 1092]
      By carmcapriotto
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Watch Full Video Episode In this forward-looking conversation, Carm Capriotto and Chris Cloutier, CEO of AutoFlow and owner of three Golden Rule Auto Care locations, explore how artificial intelligence is rapidly transforming the automotive repair industry; not as a replacement for people, but as a powerful tool that helps shop owners lead smarter, communicate better, and operate more professionally.
      Chris shares firsthand experiences using AI inside both his software company and his repair shops, revealing how the technology can dramatically reduce time spent on leadership and administrative tasks while improving workflow efficiency and customer communication. From refining technician notes to helping build business plans and expansion strategies, AI is becoming what Chris describes as a 'thought partner' for today’s shop owner.
      What You’ll Learn:
      Why AI should be viewed as a strategic business partner, not a threat to the automotive repair profession How effective prompting and providing context can dramatically improve AI-generated results Ways AI can streamline major business tasks such as SBA loan preparation, SWOT analyses, and growth planning How AI-powered technician note rewrites improve customer communication and strengthen professionalism Why clear, polished communication acts as a “curtain of professionalism” that builds customer trust How AI can help bridge language barriers by translating repair orders and inspection results The risks and humor of “AI versus AI” hiring practices, where both employers and applicants rely heavily on artificial intelligence Why Chris believes today is the least expensive AI will ever be, and why shop owners should begin learning it now
      The biggest takeaway from this episode is simple: AI will not replace highly skilled automotive professionals, but it will absolutely enhance the shops that learn how to use it effectively. From improving efficiency and communication to elevating the image of professionalism, AI offers tremendous advantages for modern repair businesses. However, Carm and Chris emphasize one critical principle throughout the conversation: trust, but verify. Just like quality control in the service bays, AI-generated information should always be reviewed carefully before being shared with customers or used to make important business decisions.
      Chris Cloutier, Golden Rule Auto Care, and CEO of Autoflow. Listen to Chris' other episodes HERE
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS
      Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care
      NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/
      Connect with the Podcast:
      Visit the Website: https://remarkableresults.biz/
      Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto
      Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/
      Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club: https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmasters Join Our Private Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976 Join our Insider List: https://remarkableresults.biz/insider All books mentioned on our podcasts: https://remarkableresults.biz/books Our Classroom page for personal or team learning: https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom Special episode collections: https://remarkableresults.biz/collections Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm   The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcast with Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion. https://remarkableresults.biz/ Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z with Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life. https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ Business by the Numbers with Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest. https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/ The Auto Repair Marketing Podcast with Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level. https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/ The Weekly Blitz with Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching. https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/ Speak Up! Effective Communication with Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size. https://craigoneill.captivate.fm                                          Click to go to the Podcast on Remarkable Results Radio


  •
    Joe Marconi

    Marketing Strategies To Attract and Retain Your Ideal Customers

    By Joe Marconi, in Automotive Marketing,

    1 comment 7,927 views
    Joe Marconi

    Every shop owner tracks gross sales. But is that really the number you should be focused on?

    By Joe Marconi, in Joe Marconi's Tips and Articles,

    0 comments 1 38 views
    nptrb

    Mid-Year Reset: What Your Auto Shop’s Numbers Are Telling You

    By nptrb, in Automotive Management,

    0 comments 10 views

  • Our Sponsors

Main Sections

More Sections

Discussion Forums

×
×
  • Create New...