Oil brands

[ATLAuto]

We are looking to start stocking bulk oil at our shop. After meeting with our oil supplier, I came away with the following pricing options for our basic non-synthetics.

• Castrol - $9/gal
• Gulf - $7/gal
• PuraLube - $6.50/gal (generic, house brand)

Naturally, I was curious why the prices varied so much for similar oils. The supplier replied that since all the non-synthetic oils met the API/OEM/DEXOS specs, they were essentially the same oil in different containers. The only "real" difference is the name and the marketing. Of which, Castrol has the best marketing, signs, banners, etc. (this is all quoting the supplier)

 

Personally, I have never had a customer ask what brand of oil we were planning on using. Rather, they just wanted to know if their warranty was still valid and when they would need their next change. That's it. In my mind, that does not warrant the premium for a brand name oil.

 

Am I unique in this? What are you guys keeping in bulk, and are you sold on the brand names?

[xrac]

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[Tires Too]

Like many things in this industry, oil is much more complexed than what most consumers imagine. There are many different standards/requirements for engine oil. Failure to meet these standards may open you up to litigation. Here are a couple of links that may change your thinking on "oil being oil".

http://www.searchautoparts.com/motorage/nace-cars-event-news/deciphering-todays-motor-oil-labels

http://www.motoroilmatters.org/Home

 

We use Valvoline as our bulk oil. The Major oils very often will have advertising support programs, volume kickbacks and are more likely to stand behind you in the event of an engine failure.

[CARMandP]

I buy Mobil 5000 as my bulk and get it in 55 gallon drums which costs me $485 a drum. I am happy to use a name brand oil for my bulk.

[Jeff]

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[ncautoshop]

I use a local bulk house brand...made by Amalie Oil. Meets all engine requirements per API SN. Correct me if I am wrong BUT I thought if the oil was API approved it met current manufactures requirments as long as the correct weights were used, outside Dexos and such. And I have never had an engne failure where the oil was the cause.

Thats what I was taught, may be wrong but its what I was told lol

 

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[5 Star Auto Spa]

We have also always used a house brand as our first level of motor oil. We also have never had any issues using this type of motor oil. Wes what oil distributor are you using? Are you getting the bulk oil in 55 gal drums?

[ATLAuto]

Like many things in this industry, oil is much more complexed than what most consumers imagine. There are many different standards/requirements for engine oil. Failure to meet these standards may open you up to litigation. Here are a couple of links that may change your thinking on "oil being oil".

http://www.searchautoparts.com/motorage/nace-cars-event-news/deciphering-todays-motor-oil-labels

http://www.motoroilmatters.org/Home

 

I did not find much of substance on these sites to help understand the varying qualities of the oils. The blogs certainly shed light onto what the oil certifications actually mean, but they do not shed light on the question, "If two oils have the same certs, and one costs 40% more, please tell me why."

 

I use a local bulk house brand...made by Amalie Oil. Meets all engine requirements per API SN. Correct me if I am wrong BUT I thought if the oil was API approved it met current manufactures requirments as long as the correct weights were used, outside Dexos and such. And I have never had an engne failure where the oil was the cause.

 

Agree 100%, Jeff. That is my reason for posting this topic in the first place. Hopefully, we'll get some solid answers in here.

 

We have also always used a house brand as our first level of motor oil. We also have never had any issues using this type of motor oil. Wes what oil distributor are you using? Are you getting the bulk oil in 55 gal drums?

 

I would rather not get into the distributor name, but they are a major player in our area, carrying a number of different brands. The oil is available in a number of ways from cases to drums to pumped off the truck. The prices I stated above were from the truck.

 

 

 

Looking forward to hearing some more feedback on this one.

[Jeff]

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[ATSAutomotive]

Use Valvoline for everything, Motor Oil, Transmission Fluids, Power Steering, etc. You name it, we use Valvoline. Always used Valvoline in all of my personal vehicles and when I've torn them down. Never find sludge, muck, crap, gunk, you get the point. Typically the price point has changed based on the additives that a company uses. Just like NAPA's house oil is made by Ashland (Valvoline) however they do not use the same formula. Hasn't anyone wondered what the difference was in Conventional and Max-Life oils? Additives.

[mmotley]

The thing I like about Amalie is they have a tech line you can call if you have questions about lube applications. I know a few here may not agree but I use their universal transmission fluid. If there is any doubt as to application I can call their offices to get clarification. And they will stand behind it if any claims should arise.

 

I've always been too scared to use anything but factory transmission fluid. These days, on these newer transmissions, I'd rather not risk it. But then again, I've never done research on universal fluids either.

Edited November 4, 2013 by mmotley

[ATSAutomotive]

I should clarify, if Valvoline doesn't make the correct fluid, then I move to an OEM fluid. Seems like we find that a lot these days. Guess I didn't get to grow up in the Dexron or Mercon days.....

[Jeff]

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[Pjauto]

I personally think the max life oils are a joke. I have over 300K on my Ford F150 4.9 auto. Has always used whatever I was using in the shop. Regular maint is the key!

I'm with Jeff on this one. We use a "house" synthetic blend at our shop. 98% of people do not care what brand goes in their car. And I just do not see the difference in all the oils, and yes I have done research. There are certainly some junk, no name brands you can buy only at the gas station that of course I would not use but for the most part all the big names are the same. Except for the new Dexos stuff and I still don't know what is so special about it, I just know it voids GM's warranty if you don't use it. And it is worth repeating "Regular maintenance is key"

[phynny]

A whole bunch of misguided thoughts on oil here. No 2 oils are the same and they vary GREATLY in their ability to protect your car. We do many oil analysis on many different vehicles and argue end of the day we only sell Brad Penn Full Synthetic. I'm no spokesperson for one brad but this oil proved itself time and time again as our results came back. There are other great oils but their price is higher and the protection we look for in oil for our climate it was an easy choice.

 

Each year vehicles are required to meet more stringent mpg requirements and a lot of this is/was done I part to making these vehicles run hot in order to run efficiently. I have many test tubes of failed oils that have caused catastrophic failures and/or expensive repairs. Oil is our engines life blood and should be treated as such IMHO.

 

I was hesitant to go from a $30 oil change to $70 but honestly we do more now than ever. And since they can legitimately go 6k between oil changes it works out cheaper for the customers. We also make more money off of each oil change.

[mmotley]

A whole bunch of misguided thoughts on oil here. No 2 oils are the same and they vary GREATLY in their ability to protect your car. We do many oil analysis on many different vehicles and argue end of the day we only sell Brad Penn Full Synthetic. I'm no spokesperson for one brad but this oil proved itself time and time again as our results came back. There are other great oils but their price is higher and the protection we look for in oil for our climate it was an easy choice.

 

Each year vehicles are required to meet more stringent mpg requirements and a lot of this is/was done I part to making these vehicles run hot in order to run efficiently. I have many test tubes of failed oils that have caused catastrophic failures and/or expensive repairs. Oil is our engines life blood and should be treated as such IMHO.

 

I was hesitant to go from a $30 oil change to $70 but honestly we do more now than ever. And since they can legitimately go 6k between oil changes it works out cheaper for the customers. We also make more money off of each oil change.

 

Not really trying to start an argument here (kind of off topic), but if your price change went from $30 to $70 and the customer is saving money because they can go 6k miles now, that means before they had to be doing oil changes every 2500 miles or less to be saving money with the $70 oil change... (if my math is correct)

 

As for the whole bulk oil question, I actually got some prices a few weeks ago on bulk oil from a local supplier... they were the exact same prices as what I can buy oil from at the Toyota Dealership! Granted, I have to deal with quart bottles, boxes, and go pick it up, but it becomes a selling point for me 'Genuine Toyota Oil and Filters!' Never would I have thought I would have got cheap oil from the dealership parts counter... PM me if you're that curious about the prices

 

On top of that, I'm not exactly on Main Street, so even though I have lots of traffic out front, none is slow enough for me to do a significant amount of oil changes to justify a tank and pumps with reels. My oil changes are usually just add on's when the customer brings it by for a check up/inspection or for other repairs. However, I would also be interested to see what some of you guys are paying for your pumping systems, or if it's rented or leased from the bulk oil companies.

[phynny]

Didn't realize I needed to spell it all out... A full synthetic will increase fuel mileage, reduce engine wear and the customer only has to see me every 6 months which saves them time and money. Understand?

 

As far as the "bulk" oil, your price will depend on the quantity you will be purchasing. Obviously if you do one oil change a week and joe-shmo does 20, he'll be at a lower price point.

[Jeff]

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[ATLAuto]

As for the whole bulk oil question, I actually got some prices a few weeks ago on bulk oil from a local supplier... they were the exact same prices as what I can buy oil from at the Toyota Dealership! Granted, I have to deal with quart bottles, boxes, and go pick it up, but it becomes a selling point for me 'Genuine Toyota Oil and Filters!' Never would I have thought I would have got cheap oil from the dealership parts counter...

 

Motley, could you expound on this a bit? Do you mean that you are able to buy bulk oil and filters from the dealership for less than consumers can buy it for? I.E. a consumer would walk into the dealership and ask for a Toyota filter and pay $8, but you would only pay $2? I have never heard of buying anything in bulk from the dealership, so I'm quite curious.

[mmotley]

 

Motley, could you expound on this a bit? Do you mean that you are able to buy bulk oil and filters from the dealership for less than consumers can buy it for? I.E. a consumer would walk into the dealership and ask for a Toyota filter and pay $8, but you would only pay $2? I have never heard of buying anything in bulk from the dealership, so I'm quite curious.

 

I think this might be a rare case, so I'll do my best to explain it.

 

The OIL they sell is the same price for me as it is for the next guy/gal in line. They sell it so cheap though, the bulk suppliers could only match the price. The explanation I got from the dealership is that it helps 'fluff or build up' the numbers, and somehow that in turn helps the dealer with returns/stocking/pricing/I dunno. Again, it is soooo cheap, even the parts guy selling it to me thought it was a mistake with the prices first came up, but parts manager said it was correct.

 

As for the filters, I do get a discount on those. I buy them by the case (12). It's not a HUGE discount, but combine the discount with the fact I can use 'Genuine oil filters' as a selling point over the 'quick lube generic oil filter' and my customers seem to like it. Yes, I could increase profit PERCENTAGE numbers by going with a cheap generic filter, but the increased sales (car count and dollars) I get with 'GENUINE' parts/filters (every oil change car gets looked over, bumper to bumper), it's better for me to stick with dealership filters...

 

On top of all that, buying my oil and filters from the dealer 'fluffs' my numbers with them. So when a $1300 drive shaft needs to be replaced, and the customer balks at the price, the dealer doesn't mind helping me out a little with the price a little. Get more bees with honey

[ATLAuto]

The OIL they sell is the same price for me as it is for the next guy/gal in line. They sell it so cheap though, the bulk suppliers could only match the price.

 

That is very interesting. Would you mind sharing the pricing you received? I doubt this is proprietary information if anyone can call the dealership and get the same price.

[mmotley]

Sent a PM

[ATSAutomotive]

I can only assume the parts department is using that to sell other genuine parts. I mean think about it. How much does the parts department really make on selling oil to customers? Why not sell it at cost and you will end up outselling even the local O'Reillys, Advance Auto Parts, CARQUEST, etc. DIY (Toyota) customers will be coming to you for their oil filter change parts. In turn buying more Genuine parts (air filters, oil filter, wipers, bulbs, etc) because they are already there. Genius in that dealerships pricing plan. I guarantee the Toyota dealership near me would not be cheap for anything.....

[phynny]

It's funny when I hear guys say I have xxx,xxx on such and such. You know there are people that smoke 3 packs a day and live to 100 years old? That must mean smoking keeps you healthy right? Wolfs head is owned by a company from Florida and it's nothing more than a bath tub blend these days.

 

As this is a technical question I don't think "here say" and personal opinions should be given as facts. Oil is the life blood of a vehicle and is very complex and should be treated as such. Next I'm going to start seeing people say that tranny fluids are all the same...

 

As far as price, you can get a good bulk oil for a little over $10/gallon. If customers are going to complain about a couple bucks for something as important as oil I don't want them as customers anyway.

[Jeff]

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[xrac]

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[mmotley]

Phynny...The point I am trying to make here is it is the regularity of maint..not the product. Understand? Can you mathmatically prove that the synthetic oil gives better mpg? What proof or science do you have that proves that regular oil changes with synthetic lubes will give you longer life that conventional oils? I have yet to see it. The PROOF I HAVE is a Ford 4.9L!! ORIGINAL ENGINE TRANSMISSION AND REAR DIFF...ALL SERVICED WITH CONVENTIONAL FLUIDS!

Now how you run your biz is you. Me? If I tried to flip my customers from a 30 lof to a 70 lof and told them they could come back half as often...????

Now as far as Wolfs Head being a "bathtub" blend..It is manufactured by Amalie..ever heard of it? Seems to me they do a lot of Top Fuel sponsoship. Meets all the SAE requirements...meets engine manufactures requirements.

Now lets talk facts,.science...proof.

 

I agree, Jeff. That being said, you can stroll over to bobistheoilguy.com and find some very smart guys testing oils and doing experiments with their own cars and giving feedback on the results. Long story short, synthetics do improve gas mileage.. when they are used in the engine, transmission, and differentials together... and the increase in gas mileage usually isn't greater that 1 mpg or so. The thing about oil (like you said), they are all held to SAE standards. Synthetics will perform better in extreme conditions (foaming, extreme heat, etc), but for an everyday driver, it won't make a difference.

 

Phynny, not trying to be rude or sound condescending, but engine oil and transmission fluid are VERY different. You sound like a smart guy from what I've read, so you have to know the friction modifiers built into the trans fluid to allow for a certain amount of slipping w/ clutch discs and such is completely different than engine oil providing lubrication for 2 (usually) similar metals. E.g. Oil is tested and rated to SAE standards, transmission fluid is very vehicle specific (depending on additive packages)

 

Sorry, don't mean to look like I'm arguing. Wes, I have found MOST of my customers don't ask about oil brands. The few that do ask, usually already have their favorite brand in mind. For those, I allow them to supply their own oil for the oil change. I do keep (2) 5 quart bottles of Mobil 1 5W30 in the back for the occasional customer, but that's it. Also, it depends on your shop image/branding. If your a performance/race shop, you would probably benefit from keeping Mobil 1 in stock or some royal purple. If your a quick lube shop, you can get away with whatever flavor is cheapest that month/week. Hope I've helped some...

 

***Edit: Just realized, I should have been using API in place of SAE when discussing oil ratings (additive pacakages, not viscosity grade). I'll leave the old paragraph with the mistakes, so if someone wants to research the difference between the 2, they can reference it.

Edited November 6, 2013 by mmotley

[Junior]

We are looking to start stocking bulk oil at our shop. After meeting with our oil supplier, I came away with the following pricing options for our basic non-synthetics.

• Castrol - $9/gal
• Gulf - $7/gal
• PuraLube - $6.50/gal (generic, house brand)

Naturally, I was curious why the prices varied so much for similar oils. The supplier replied that since all the non-synthetic oils met the API/OEM/DEXOS specs, they were essentially the same oil in different containers. The only "real" difference is the name and the marketing. Of which, Castrol has the best marketing, signs, banners, etc. (this is all quoting the supplier)

 

Personally, I have never had a customer ask what brand of oil we were planning on using. Rather, they just wanted to know if their warranty was still valid and when they would need their next change. That's it. In my mind, that does not warrant the premium for a brand name oil.

 

Am I unique in this? What are you guys keeping in bulk, and are you sold on the brand names?

 

I highly doubt any house brand oil meets the DEXOS spec, certainly not going to meet VW Audi 502, Mercedes 229, BMW long life 01. Most generic full synthetics don't meet those specs. Installing the incorrect oil voids the warranty on most if not all vehicles. We specifically state on every invoice what oil was used and that it meets the OEM spec. We stock 55gal drums of Mobil conventional oil and use mostly Mobil 1 synthetics to meet specs and LiquiMoly or Fuches in some cases. Oil changes start at $36 and up. Your typical european car is about $70ish for basic oil change. We recommend factory service intervals. We also typically don't perform a simple oil change, we perform complete services per the factory maintenance schedule. 80%+ of our customers prefer this method, the rest we do a-la-cart.

[5 Star Auto Spa]

I agree with both sides. We use house oil on 75% of our customers vehicles as they do not a preference on what type of oil goes into their vehicle. That being said, if the vehicle calls for a specific spec to be met, we verify that the house oil meets this spec. If it does not, we inform the customer and let them choose whether to use the house oil which does not meet the spec or use a synthetic oil that has been verified to meet the spec. If the customer chooses to use the house oil, we notate that the customer was given the notice and denied the oil that was manufacturer recommended. Many of todays consumers do not care or have allegiance towards a specific brand of oil like some older people would have with Penzoil or Mobil. I do agree with everyone that is stating that doing service, whether oil changes or any preventative maintenance service, on time is most important.

[ATSAutomotive]

I think we can all agree that regular maintenance is key to keeping a car in perfect running condition. Like I said before, I run Valvoline out of my own personal preference. I've used it in my vehicles since I started driving (I'm 25 so not some old timer) I've read around a dozen or so different wear tests for different oil manufacturers over the years. Valvoline isn't always the #1 victor but it ranks near the top in almost all wear tests. I chose to use Valvoline for my customer's vehicles because I felt if I used something else I would be cheating them. To me, I felt they deserved the same oil I trust in my vehicles. We all have our own preferences and ideas that led to our decisions. We don't have to agree on anything, as long as we agree that we do what we feel is right for our customers. To each their own as long as we keep our customers happy and most importantly, on the road.

 

For comparison, I am currently paying $9.86/gallon for Valvoline Conventional Bulk.

 

Side Note: I did read recently (I believe in Motor Magazine or Professional Tool & Equipment) that there was a law passed in California if I remember correctly. Where a shop can be held responsible for not using the correct oil. As a shop you were required to completely identify on the invoice the type of oil you used. Made me think of it as one member was discussing VW, BMW and the DEXOS standards. We even noticed at our shop, one of our fleet companies had a few vehicles requiring DEXOS and we had only been using conventional. Let's make sure everyone does a good job checking the oil standards.

Edited November 6, 2013 by ATSAutomotive

[Jeff]

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[phynny]

Phynny...The point I am trying to make here is it is the regularity of maint..not the product. Understand? Can you mathmatically prove that the synthetic oil gives better mpg? What proof or science do you have that proves that regular oil changes with synthetic lubes will give you longer life that conventional oils? I have yet to see it. The PROOF I HAVE is a Ford 4.9L!! ORIGINAL ENGINE TRANSMISSION AND REAR DIFF...ALL SERVICED WITH CONVENTIONAL FLUIDS!

Now how you run your biz is you. Me? If I tried to flip my customers from a 30 lof to a 70 lof and told them they could come back half as often...????

Now as far as Wolfs Head being a "bathtub" blend..It is manufactured by Amalie..ever heard of it? Seems to me they do a lot of Top Fuel sponsoship. Meets all the SAE requirements...meets engine manufactures requirements.

Now lets talk facts,.science...proof.

Jeff, the old mentality of amount of oil changes is more important than the quality is a thing of the past. You brought up facts, science and proof, what qualifies you to give advice on oil and the effects of engine wear, do you build engines? I am very heavy into the race scene, from autocross to to world time attack and everything in between. I know for a fact what we run and why we run it.

 

I really do not feel like debating you because it's a waste of my time but I'll try to give an example that will make it more clear. Would you put just any oil in a BMW M5, Dodge Viper or any race motor for that matter? Of course not that would be crazy. But do you realize many cars today have as much or more hp/cylinder than race cars and very high performance cars. Just because we drive something daily does not mean it's just a car that can live off any oil. Look at all the turbo cars anymore, if anyone thinks a turbo charged car can live off of junk oil well then... It's no wonder why our industry is in such bad shape.

[Jeff]

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[Leonard Lee]

We are looking to start stocking bulk oil at our shop. After meeting with our oil supplier, I came away with the following pricing options for our basic non-synthetics.

• Castrol - $9/gal
• Gulf - $7/gal
• PuraLube - $6.50/gal (generic, house brand)

Naturally, I was curious why the prices varied so much for similar oils. The supplier replied that since all the non-synthetic oils met the API/OEM/DEXOS specs, they were essentially the same oil in different containers. The only "real" difference is the name and the marketing. Of which, Castrol has the best marketing, signs, banners, etc. (this is all quoting the supplier)

 

Personally, I have never had a customer ask what brand of oil we were planning on using. Rather, they just wanted to know if their warranty was still valid and when they would need their next change. That's it. In my mind, that does not warrant the premium for a brand name oil.

 

Am I unique in this? What are you guys keeping in bulk, and are you sold on the brand names?

 

Heya!

 

I'm the sort of guy that won't want to stock too much of anything because that to me is dead stock/inventory. Of course, oils are sold by companies that may have a lot of stock and are trying to get out of their warehouse.

 

With my shop, i'll be using Martini Racing. It's Australian and a part from being a workshop owner (to be), I've also picked up the sales position for Martini Racing in Asia just so I can get the sneaky into the industry. heh

 

Martini does things differently, There's no need to stock, which is good. It is also used by a fair number of cars in the World Time Attack Challenge held in Sydney, Australia. It is used in the champion's car as well as a lot of the other competing cars. I stock & sell that because I have full confidence in the product. If a $700,000 car wants to use it exclusively, i'm selling it! LOL plus the margin is good.

 

Hope that helps!

Edited December 3, 2013 by Leonard Lee