Cardone Part Failures: Rack and Pinions

[Joe Marconi]

We have seen an unusual high failure rate of steering racks recently; three in the last few months. The rebuilder of the racks is Cardone. Sorry Cardone, you may not like this post or my opinion. But I have had it with doing jobs over again and over and damaging my reputation in the process.

 

I know these are rebuilt units. I know Cardone has a long history in the industry. I have bought their products for decades; but not anymore. The cost of comeback is too great these days. The loss of revenue is one thing; the loss of a customer's confidence is even greater. And let's not forget the customer's safety.

 

I was on vacation in Chicago when I got a frantic email from my customer, a women who lost her steering over the Labor Day Holiday. We installed the rack last week and she picked up her car this past Friday.

 

Again, Cardone, are you listening: "Lost her steering".

 

There have been other issues with Cardone steering racks in the past. And I don’t think this is an anomaly. Other shops are experiencing the same issues.

 

We need to have faith in the parts we purchase. The motoring public must have faith in us; if that the trust is broken we all fail.

 

There’s no other way to put it: Comebacks kill.

 

 

 

[FROGFINDER]

Joe I say with all respect I have stayed away from the mentioned brand at least for a decade. And i'm talking full line. This type products often get installed into systems that carry a high safety risk as well as the BREAK DOWN WITHE ZOMBIES DRAMA your ears will hear next work day from your customer. ps. Let the customer have a choice to buy related system parts and flushes, such as pump and hoses, tie rod ends, wheel alignment, etc

Frogfinder

[ncautoshop]

Had a distributor in a Taurus from cardone, installed had no spark. Using DSO found the pip waveform didn't even resemble the old one. Replaced it with a ford pickup and it fired right up. Got ahold of a guy at cardone and not only did he have no clue what a waveform was he also gave a very nice pre-rehursed speech about who how I could return the part to the store for a refund lol

 

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[Jeff]

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[xrac]

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[HarrytheCarGeek]

The problem is that sometimes your run into a situation that Cardone is the only one offering anything other than a o.e.m. part.

 

Been burned too many times by the reman guys, I have honed my skills to sell the oem part and at least make a 35% margin.

 

Live and learn, redoing work for free is no fun, and chasing dollars from vendors is neither.

[Dan Reichow]

My Supplier and I had a long talk today about parts quality brand preferrence. He stated he has been approched from several clients about comeback and or never leave parts issues.

 

I told him Cardone is the major supplier I stay away from. They have lousy client service and technical staff . We had a dodge pickup that came from another shop , they installed a rack and pinion and could not align properly and threw thier hands up.

Upon inspection could get steering wheel straight but only a few threads on tie rod left . We inspected for proper new tie rod ends found to be right, Cardone hot line wanted us to inspect steering shaft to make sure no issue. After a few frustrating days working with Cardone and others. I asked my Tech to pull the sector shaft or imput shaft and rotate it one Align perfect with proper amount of turns.

 

With all this said I pushed Cardone for lost time claim and inspect thier racks on this model , We got another to make sure was just only one that happened to clocked wrong and the new one was clocked wrong.

Cardoen Technical Department was to get in a like and kind pickup and have thier product tested and compared to. Al From Cardone was to accomplish I Followed up in a Few months always blew me off.

The really disturbing issue is they said when they go to rebuild items they buy an item from a recycling yard and use a template. So with that said if they get a salvage part someone has altered they our going to rebuild to those specs. This Al was a trip.

 

The client was unhappy due to thier was out of pocket expense Cardone and the parts house the other shop used, So we were not a winner .

Gues what almost a year later the client come in Rack Leaking, No problem Well Guess what We had to clock that rack input shaft.

As spoken here Cardone is one of the few players left? so it does put installers in a situation.

 

I guess it would not be so bad if manufactures would give us some credit not all of the industry screws up parts and is our faults - just many manufactures do the trash can test and say no credit deserved.

In Closing - After 33years I cannot believe how they do not have pepole in place and unwilling or suprised when we send in a claim with wave forms before and after , digital pictures , vidieo , We recently Taped a noise with our phone before changing an idler pulley defect.They do not know how to answer.

We had a fuel pump claim turned down nothing wrong they said. Puts out volume perfect. I called them Did you read why it was returned- Was not running conditon was gas gauge issue did not read full when full. Guy goes oh!!.

My belief is the manufactuer and parts house should have a portal to file a claim and insert documents , pictures , print outs and contact person so if thier is a concern all the info is not going through 4 - 5 pepoles hads to get mistruded.AND IS HELPING THE GREEN EFFORT.

[xrac]

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[mspecperformance]

Reading this thread I am so glad I don't work on domestics! What is up with the quality of aftermarket parts these days???

[GeeZ]

Cordone refurbs many imports also.

[mmotley]

I'm really surprised most folks on here are using A1 parts (really, not just A1, but aftermarket period). I know I'm fairly new to running a business, but my experience in working on cars has taught me a valuable lesson. Cheap aftermarket parts are just that...CHEAP. There is a reason why the Original Equipment Manufacturer parts last 80,000+ miles. And if they aren't lasting that long, the car manufacturer is putting pressure on the OEMs to fix the design flaw and make it right.

 

Also, make sure you know the difference between aftermarket, OE spec, and OEM.

 

Aftermarket is just that. Doesn't mean its cheap, it just means it's not factory. It's probably not gonna perform the same as the original. It might last longer or perform better. Or it might not... Also, aftermarket is sometimes the only option you have (particularly on older cars).

 

OE spec (built to OE spec, etc). This is a very arbitrary statement. OE spec could just mean dimensions. Or materials. Or appearance. Point is, you don't really know what they mean and the manufacturer of the part isn't really being held to any certain standard or inspection process. I know one could argue that the customer is holding them to a standard, but a few angry customers is nothing like GM or Chrysler or Nissan calling them up after a multi-million dollar contract and saying the parts they received are failing. Really, this category is the same as aftermarket, but there seems to be a line of products that advertise they are 'OE quality". They usually aren't.

 

OEM parts. Original Equipment Manufacturer. These are parts from companies that originally manufactured them for the car when they rolled off the line. They usually are manufactured to the specs provided by the car manufacturer and have the most R&D behind them. You don't necessarily have to get these from the dealership either. Many of these parts are available directly from the manufacturer. I.E. Toyota gets a lot of their parts made by Denso. A Toyota air filter literally has Denso still written on the air filter. Same with the oil filter. Same with O2 sensors, etc... Point is, you can sometimes get OEM parts directly from them at a discount, instead of going to the dealership.

 

I know some will say I'm just a fan of OEM parts, and that is partially true. Only because of the success I have had with them. I have dealt with struts that don't fit, new modules that won't communicate, seals that are the wrong size, and parts that are just boxed/labeled wrong. Yes, I have had issues with brand new OEM parts, but not at the rate of aftermarket parts. I also understand that there is a significant price difference between the 2. Personally, I just don't see the extra profit being worth the headache and loss of customer trust.

 

I have given customers the option of using aftermarket parts from Autozone, Oreilly, Napa, etc... I just make sure to let them know of the possible issues with cheaper aftermarket parts and that the warranty on repair will not be the same as when I use OEM parts (also gets printed on the RO). If you aren't doing this, I would say be ready to assume responsibility for the part failure. At least that's how the customer is going to see it. They brought you their car to be fixed because you are supposed to know how to fix them. This includes knowing what parts to use.

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion on the matter as most of us all have some sort of loyalty to one brand, distributor, parts guy, or whatever. A lot of this comes from experience working at a parts store, independent shop, and dealership. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

Edited October 2, 2013 by mmotley

[ncautoshop]

I'm really surprised most folks on here are using A1 parts (really, not just A1, but aftermarket period). I know I'm fairly new to running a business, but my experience in working on cars has taught me a valuable lesson. Cheap aftermarket parts are just that...CHEAP. There is a reason why the Original Equipment Manufacturer parts last 80,000+ miles. And if they aren't lasting that long, the car manufacturer is putting pressure on the OEMs to fix the design flaw and make it right. 

 

Also, make sure you know the difference between aftermarket, OE spec, and OEM. 

 

Aftermarket is just that. Doesn't mean its cheap, it just means it's not factory. It's probably not gonna perform the same as the original. It might last longer or perform better. Or it might not... Also, aftermarket is sometimes the only option you have (particularly on older cars).

 

OE spec (built to OE spec, etc). This is a very arbitrary statement. OE spec could just mean dimensions. Or materials. Or appearance. Point is, you don't really know what they mean and the manufacturer of the part isn't really being held to any certain standard or inspection process. I know one could argue that the customer is holding them to a standard, but a few angry customers is nothing like GM or Chrysler or Nissan calling them up after a multi-million dollar contract and saying the parts they received are failing. Really, this category is the same as aftermarket, but there seems to be a line of products that advertise they are 'OE quality". They usually aren't.

 

OEM parts. Original Equipment Manufacturer. These are parts from companies that originally manufactured them for the car when they rolled off the line. They usually are manufactured to the specs provided by the car manufacturer and have the most R&D behind them. You don't necessarily have to get these from the dealership either. Many of these parts are available directly from the manufacturer. I.E. Toyota gets a lot of their parts made by Denso. A Toyota air filter literally has Denso still written on the air filter. Same with the oil filter. Same with O2 sensors, etc... Point is, you can sometimes get OEM parts directly from them at a discount, instead of going to the dealership. 

 

I know some will say I'm just a fan of OEM parts, and that is partially true. Only because of the success I have had with them. I have dealt with struts that don't fit, new modules that won't communicate, seals that are the wrong size, and parts that are just boxed/labeled wrong. Yes, I have had issues with brand new OEM parts, but not at the rate of aftermarket parts. I also understand that there is a significant price difference between the 2. Personally, I just don't see the extra profit being worth the headache and loss of customer trust. 

 

I have given customers the option of using aftermarket parts from Autozone, Oreilly, Napa, etc... I just make sure to let them know of the possible issues with cheaper aftermarket parts and that the warranty on repair will not be the same as when I use OEM parts (also gets printed on the RO). If you aren't doing this, I would say be ready to assume responsibility for the part failure. At least that's how the customer is going to see it. They brought you their car to be fixed because you are supposed to know how to fix them. This includes knowing what parts to use.

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion on the matter as most of us all have some sort of loyalty to one brand, distributor, parts guy, or whatever. A lot of this comes from experience working at a parts store, independent shop, and dealership. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

My problem with oem is the fact their trying to price indys out. Our local dealers have been open about the fact that they've been told to price indys out of thenoem market.

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[mmotley]

My problem with oem is the fact their trying to price indys out. Our local dealers have been open about the fact that they've been told to price indys out of thenoem market.

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Wow, that's pretty crazy! Best advise I can offer is aggressively seek out the parts direct from the OEM (the Denso/Toyota example I gave earlier).

 

As far as Cardone (the original topic), that's a bummer to hear about their quality. Even being aftermarket, that kind of performance is unacceptable. In this case, do you simply change brands for that specific component or go to a completely different parts supplier? Also, how did you handle the customer that lost their steering? I imagine 'I'm sorry' can only go so far with a situation like this.

[Sean]

I have been in a vehicle that lost steering and I ended up going into oncoming traffic on the interstate, not cool ! This was a fleet vehicle for a rescue team and needless to say I won't drive that vehicle anymore since it almost killed me.

[FROGFINDER]

Don't ever think think the dealer is your friend. With gps and smart phones your customers cars are almost driving themselves to the dealer.

[Joe Marconi]

The last thing I want to do is to support the new car dealerships and give up on the aftermarket companies. In all fairness, Cardone reps have called me with these issues and they invited me to their next tech council meeting. They know they have problems and do not want to loose the confidence of the independent repair shops.

 

I don't know how this race to bottom with respect to pricing started. Maybe is our fault, maybe not. I really don't know. But with low prices came low quality. I have been around the block more than I care to share, and I can tell you a rotor in 1990 was not the same as it is today. And it cost anywhere from 50 to 90 bucks, or more.

 

Now we are getting rotors that are made in China, shipped in containers across the ocean and it cost 17 dollars? Really? This is a good thing? And most shops wonder why their gross profit dollars is eroding more and more. We made more gross profit dollars years ago then today. I am talking GP Dollars here. Not percentages. The percentage you are making is the same, but I pay my bills with dollars not percentages.

 

We all need to get back to quality. I hope this country wakes up. I don't want to bash other countries like China, but it is clear that too much of what they produce is inferior. And we are putting these parts on our customer cars, our family cars and friend's cars.

 

It has got to stop.

[ncautoshop]

The last thing I want to do is to support the new car dealerships and give up on the aftermarket companies. In all fairness, Cardone reps have called me with these issues and they invited me to their next tech council meeting. They know they have problems and do not want to loose the confidence of the independent repair shops.

 

I don't know how this race to bottom with respect to pricing started. Maybe is our fault, maybe not. I really don't know. But with low prices came low quality.  I have been around the block more than I care to share, and I can tell you a rotor in 1990 was not the same as it is today. And it cost anywhere from 50 to 90 bucks, or more.

 

Now we are getting rotors that are made in China, shipped in containers across the ocean and it cost 17 dollars? Really? This is a good thing? And most shops wonder why their gross profit dollars is eroding more and more. We made more gross profit dollars years ago then today. I am talking GP Dollars here. Not percentages. The percentage you are making is the same, but I pay my bills with dollars not percentages.

 

We all need to get back to quality. I hope this country wakes up. I don't want to bash other countries like China, but it is clear that too much of what they produce is inferior. And we are putting these parts on our customer cars, our family cars and friend's cars.

 

It has got to stop.

The said thing is their producing what the people of this country are asking for, cheap and now. We've moved away from quality, away from interest how things get made, built and repaired and into how things get paid for.

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[TheTrustedMechanic]

I'm really surprised most folks on here are using A1 parts (really, not just A1, but aftermarket period). I know I'm fairly new to running a business, but my experience in working on cars has taught me a valuable lesson. Cheap aftermarket parts are just that...CHEAP. There is a reason why the Original Equipment Manufacturer parts last 80,000+ miles. And if they aren't lasting that long, the car manufacturer is putting pressure on the OEMs to fix the design flaw and make it right.

 

Also, make sure you know the difference between aftermarket, OE spec, and OEM.

 

Aftermarket is just that. Doesn't mean its cheap, it just means it's not factory. It's probably not gonna perform the same as the original. It might last longer or perform better. Or it might not... Also, aftermarket is sometimes the only option you have (particularly on older cars).

 

OE spec (built to OE spec, etc). This is a very arbitrary statement. OE spec could just mean dimensions. Or materials. Or appearance. Point is, you don't really know what they mean and the manufacturer of the part isn't really being held to any certain standard or inspection process. I know one could argue that the customer is holding them to a standard, but a few angry customers is nothing like GM or Chrysler or Nissan calling them up after a multi-million dollar contract and saying the parts they received are failing. Really, this category is the same as aftermarket, but there seems to be a line of products that advertise they are 'OE quality". They usually aren't.

 

OEM parts. Original Equipment Manufacturer. These are parts from companies that originally manufactured them for the car when they rolled off the line. They usually are manufactured to the specs provided by the car manufacturer and have the most R&D behind them. You don't necessarily have to get these from the dealership either. Many of these parts are available directly from the manufacturer. I.E. Toyota gets a lot of their parts made by Denso. A Toyota air filter literally has Denso still written on the air filter. Same with the oil filter. Same with O2 sensors, etc... Point is, you can sometimes get OEM parts directly from them at a discount, instead of going to the dealership.

 

I know some will say I'm just a fan of OEM parts, and that is partially true. Only because of the success I have had with them. I have dealt with struts that don't fit, new modules that won't communicate, seals that are the wrong size, and parts that are just boxed/labeled wrong. Yes, I have had issues with brand new OEM parts, but not at the rate of aftermarket parts. I also understand that there is a significant price difference between the 2. Personally, I just don't see the extra profit being worth the headache and loss of customer trust.

 

I have given customers the option of using aftermarket parts from Autozone, Oreilly, Napa, etc... I just make sure to let them know of the possible issues with cheaper aftermarket parts and that the warranty on repair will not be the same as when I use OEM parts (also gets printed on the RO). If you aren't doing this, I would say be ready to assume responsibility for the part failure. At least that's how the customer is going to see it. They brought you their car to be fixed because you are supposed to know how to fix them. This includes knowing what parts to use.

 

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure everyone has a different opinion on the matter as most of us all have some sort of loyalty to one brand, distributor, parts guy, or whatever. A lot of this comes from experience working at a parts store, independent shop, and dealership. Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

Not everyone is big enough or specialized enough to buy from OE suppliers or wholesale distributors like WorldPac. So that is not a viable solution. As for Oe parts lasting 80,000 miles or more, tell that to the old lady with the Chrysler 300M with 33,000 miles on it and the tie rod ends that I wouldn't drive out of my parting lot with. Both sides, and her car was out of warranty by time. Or the fellow who's PT Loser had loose ball joints just over 40K, his other PT Loser had a bad wheel bearing just under 50K. Or the lady with the Hyundai and with a bad ball joint (left side, not even the curbside)that was bad in 30K. You know you can find all sorts of reasons and all kinds of examples, but OE parts, and it doesn't matter what manufaturer all have problems of one kind or another. Otherwise we wouldn't have successful specialty shops servicing only Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura cars. And not all of us are in areas where we can specialize only in one make or manufacturer, we have to expand. Some shops even have to work lawn tractors, boats and jet skis to have enough work. To buy from OE supplies or large wholesalers they just aren't big enough.

[mmotley]

Not everyone is big enough or specialized enough to buy from OE suppliers or wholesale distributors like WorldPac. So that is not a viable solution. As for Oe parts lasting 80,000 miles or more, tell that to the old lady with the Chrysler 300M with 33,000 miles on it and the tie rod ends that I wouldn't drive out of my parting lot with. Both sides, and her car was out of warranty by time. Or the fellow who's PT Loser had loose ball joints just over 40K, his other PT Loser had a bad wheel bearing just under 50K. Or the lady with the Hyundai and with a bad ball joint (left side, not even the curbside)that was bad in 30K. You know you can find all sorts of reasons and all kinds of examples, but OE parts, and it doesn't matter what manufaturer all have problems of one kind or another. Otherwise we wouldn't have successful specialty shops servicing only Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura cars. And not all of us are in areas where we can specialize only in one make or manufacturer, we have to expand. Some shops even have to work lawn tractors, boats and jet skis to have enough work. To buy from OE supplies or large wholesalers they just aren't big enough.

This is true, and I agree for the most part. However, it sounds to me that if Cardone was a car manufacturer and was experiencing these kinds of problems, they would be issuing a recall, much like many car manufacturers do. When a problem is that common (like what Joe is talking about), car Manufacturers can be forced to issue a recall. Aftermarket part manufacturers are not held to the same government rules and regulations of liability.

 

I'm not saying they are perfect (if they were, there would be no warranty work being done at a dealership), but I think most of us would gamble on a factory OEM part then we would aftermarket. Why? Because of experiences like Joe is having with the steering rack. Does this mean I am saying use OEM everytime? Of course not, you would loose too much business, profit, and on older cars, it isn't always available.

 

It's really up to you and your customer where you get your parts. I was just trying to offer the idea of maybe sourcing your parts from the same place the dealer gets them. It's not always possible, but in some cases you can save a lot of money and get a good quality part. After all, we aren't stuck with just O'Reilly or Autozone.

[Jeff]

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