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Posted

I get a text from one of my customers. It's a 1997 Kia Sportage with 160k miles on it. We fixed a severe oil leak exactly 6 days ago (they've been driving it for 6 days).

 

We replaced the oil cooler that attaches to the oil filter adaptor and hoses that run from the cooler to the head. We had to remove the intake manifold to do it. We didn't undo any fuel lines. There were no leaks from what we could see after we finished other than a severe exhaust leak.

 

She texted me that the oil light came on and the car shut off and that when they tried to crank it, fire started from underneath the vehicle. Fire was really bad and burned up pretty much everything in the engine compartment. Fire man said fire was too intense to know where it originated.

 

They are really nice people and feel really bad for them. They were texting me just to let me know what happened.

 

I am a really fair person and if this was our doing, then I would definitely take care of the situation in whatever way I can. Is this something my insurance should handle? Do you guys think it could have come from the repair we just did? We spent 2 weeks on this car because parts were special order for everything and it was a pain to work on as well. This job was already a loss to our shop but something like this just makes it worse. Also we are having one of the slowest weeks. Tough time financially, tough time for the customer, just overall a really bad situation.

Posted (edited)

I think there's two questions - are you at fault, who knows and you may never know. It very well could've been a workmanship issue considering the job was frustrating (we tend to make more mistakes in these situations) and the oil light came on directly before the issue. But who knows maybe it was the wiring harness insulation melting resulting in circuit issues causing the the light.

Question 2: Are you liable? In my opinion, absolutely. As a shop owner you should be calling the insurance company and doing whatever it takes to take care of these people. I've in the past had situations where I didn't address an issue as I should have. I regret things like that so, in situations like this we work extremely hard to make it right. Replacement car, full of gas and detailed maybe a gift card and hand written apology.

Your business reputation depends on it.

I've only had one similar situation but it turned out ok and minimal damage was sustained. We handled it in house as the repairs were less than the deductible.

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Edited by ncautoshop
Posted

I think there's two questions - are you at fault, who knows and you may never know. It very well could've been a workmanship issue considering the job was frustrating (we tend to make more mistakes in these situations) and the oil light came on directly before the issue. But who knows maybe it was the wiring harness insulation melting resulting in circuit issues causing the the light.

Question 2: Are you liable? In my opinion, absolutely. As a shop owner you should be calling the insurance company and doing whatever it takes to take care of these people. I've in the past had situations where I didn't address an issue as I should have. I regret things like that so, in situations like this we work extremely hard to make it right. Replacement car, full of gas and detailed maybe a gift card and hand written apology.

Your business reputation depends on it.

I've only had one similar situation but it turned out ok and minimal damage was sustained. We handled it in house as the repairs were less than the deductible.

 

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Thanks, yea I just got off the phone with my insurance and started a claim. An adjuster will be calling me within 1 business day and I texted the customer and let them know. Man, it's times like these where I want to close up shop and work at Carmax again

Posted

Thanks, yea I just got off the phone with my insurance and started a claim. An adjuster will be calling me within 1 business day and I texted the customer and let them know. Man, it's times like these where I want to close up shop and work at Carmax again

I understand that! It's part of being in business though!

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Posted

Sorry you have to go through stuff like this. We had a similar situation recently but it was more that the dealership was trying to throw us under the bus. We were totally not at fault but of course the dealership has the most ethical people working there.

 

When I have been in situations like this in the past it really does help to be profitable so when you take hits it doesnt hurt as much. I know you had an issue with your labor rate and charging the appropriate amount. Something to keep in mind.

Posted

Should be a claim. Thank God no one was hurt. Was the car road tested and quality checked before it was released? Over the many years i found issues related and unrelated to my shops work before i released it to the customer.

Posted

Should be a claim. Thank God no one was hurt. Was the car road tested and quality checked before it was released? Over the many years i found issues related and unrelated to my shops work before i released it to the customer.

Amen! 10 mile test drive everytime here!

 

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  • Like 1
Posted (edited)

From the limited information we have it is hard to tell but one has to suspect that it is likely. This is a situation where the rubber meets the road as far as what we do as owners. You could probably wash your hands of any liability and not do anything or you man up and assume liability that you may or may not have been responsible for.

 

I agree with xrac.

 

1997 Kia Sportage? Don't get me started on such low value vehicles. Anyways, look here http://newyork.craigslist.org/stn/cto/5880556318.html

 

Like mspecperformance says "When I have been in situations like this in the past it really does help to be profitable so when you take hits it doesnt hurt as much."

 

Keen in mind you are in business to make a profit, and this is why you must charge the right amount that will allow you to prosper.

 

Regarding liability, there is not enough information to know what happened.

 

The suv could have had trouble starting and the customer kept cracking the engine until starter shorted out, with an exhaust leak it could have been running too rich, whatever. How far was the exhaust leak from the front oxygen sensor?

Edited by HarrytheCarGeek
Posted

Similar to what mspec said, it helps sooooo much to have a small savings built up for situations like this. About October of last year, I set up an automatic transfer to a business savings account. Every Friday, I have a set amount set to transfer to the savings account and I do my best not to touch it unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. I make the business work out of what's left in the checking account.

 

As for the fire situation, I wouldn't ever admit that it was your fault. However, I would tell the customer that since you worked on it so recently, you are going to take care of the situation. I had a similar situation recently, not near as serious though. I didn't admit fault, but I admitted how the situation APPEARED and told the customer I was going to make it right.

 

Again, can't stress how helpful the savings account has been. If nothing else, just the peace of mind knowing it's there. Set up the automatic transfer and forget about it.

Posted

Dude, I can't even imagine the anxiety you have right now. Just keep your head up, and remember anything could have happend to cause this, and no one knows if you are actually at fault or not. So don't just assume you are at fault. The facts are - they had the vehicle at your shop, and 6 days later the vehicle caught fire. I agree with Premier that it is important to express concern with how the situation looks, and offer to make it right just based on that alone.

 

Plus, one less leaky KIA on the road isn't necessarily a bad thing anyway.

  • Like 1
Posted

Seen the Heading so had to share

Were a 5 bay 4 employee shop in a small rural town. We had a really strange fire situation about a year ago. I was at the airport coming back from the SEMA show in Vegas sunday afternoon. Got this picture text from a buddy of mine with an 04 Chevy 2500hd diesel with the front end totally engulfed in flames outside of my shop. My first phone call was to him because it looked fake like that fire app you can have on your phone.....well It wasn't a joke. O-shit and anxiety you bet! Next called my shop foreman, he said that truck has been sitting there untouched since weds afternoon 4 days, waiting for additional authorization of labor to narrow down a battery drain issue and clean up his wiring mess. My next call was to my insurance agent so she had the heads up. Fire department put out the fire. This vehicle was a company truck for a young landscaping company. It had everybody and there brother put electrical add-ons all over this thing over the years, plow,lights,converter,performance add-ons etc.etc. His insurance company sent a fire investigator to check it out and found 3 definite wire chafing in add on circuits that were not fused or protected. His determination was a electrical fire from improper wiring. We were cleared and our insurance was never involved. Customer was not happy with me or his insurance company. Was a total loss. I was glad that it was not in the shop over the weekend.

  • Like 1
Posted

Jay

 

My name is Mike. I own a shop in San Bruno , California. I do believe this is my first post /reply on here. I appreciate and agree with your ethics here, so, I had to say something to get you to look from the outside in. There certainly is the such thing as being too honest.

 

Like has already been said, its probably too late. But, the only thing I've heard that your shop may be at fault is that you worked on it 6 days before. All the dash lights came on when the vehicle stalled out including the oil light ( of course) .

Your customer said "oil light came on and the car shut off” maybe the car shut off and the oil light came on. I'm not implying the customer is lying at all, but , we all have customers calling for an alignment because of a vibration or calling for ....actually , we had a customer call a few days ago for a serpentine belt because the car wouldn't move ( the clutch failed).

 

Don't get me wrong, if you knew you were responsible by all means, do the right thing. But at the same time, give yourself a chance...If no one knows work it out with the customer best you can.

 

Its been said but, paying for the car or at least partially, would probably make you a hero to the customer ( if you really feel the need ) and not get cancelled or higher premiums from your insurance.

Might you be able to cancel the claim? ( sometimes it doesn't matter once you've file the claim, maybe your customer found out something else happened? brother changed the fuel filter? what have you .

 

Where's the cat on that? Looking at it yourself you should be able to size up the probability of an oil leak causing the fire, one way or the other.

 

If I missed something obvious here in the posts, that makes my post useless I apologize I did not have time to absorb everything said, just the basics.

 

I've been in business for 23 years and have never had to file a claim with my insurance nor settle a problem ( dent, scratch, repair etc...) for more than a couple of hundred bucks. I'm sure that will change tomorrow now that I've said that , but for now ....

 

Good Luck

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

Thank you guys so much for all your thoughtful responses. It's nice to know that I'm not alone in something like this.

 

I do have an update. Like everyone has said, there's no way of knowing what really happened. We made sure nothing was leaking and test drove after (not 10 miles though).

 

I found out that they bought the car for $1000 a week before we started working on it. The oil leak was so bad that they thought it was the rear main seal when they brought it in. I honestly cant think of anything we could've done to have caused the fire. Oil leak couldn't have been worse than what it was, even if the part we put on failed (oil cooler from the dealer BTW).

 

Anyway... the customer never pointed the finger at us and she just texted me with pics just for FYI. These customers couldn't be nicer and I took initiative in starting the claim... they never demanded anything.

 

I am pretty certain our insurance won't do anything but came up with a solution. I had a 07 Dodge Caliber I bought from a customer for $400 a while back and just sitting on my lot. (Misfire cyl #4, she bought a new car and didn't want to mess with it, replaced crankshaft position sensor to fix)

 

I sold her the caliber for $500 today (what I had in it.). KBB value for very good was well over $2000 and much much more reliable than the Kia.

 

It had that notorious throttle body issue but I reprogrammed the throttle body yesterday. I told her about it and if it happened again, I offered to replace it for her if she provided parts.

 

All in all as long as the Caliber holds up, it worked out well for the customer. She ended up spending overall what the Caliber was worth so technically wasn't a loss for either one of us. Also offered to buy back the Caliber anytime for $500 if she decided she didn't want it anymore. Hopefully this post doesn't jinx it but they took the caliber and haven't gotten a call or text from them..... so Caliber must be holding up. It wasn't registered and no tags so I couldn't test drive it, just drove it around the parking lot a bunch and made sure no codes came up. It's been sitting for months

Edited by Jay Huh
  • Like 1
Posted

Hi Jay, If you're going to bend over backward's for a customer this sounds like the kind of customer to do it for. Don't you just love the customer that is so reasonable, you're willing to do anything for them? I don't mean that sarcastically at all. In this world were so many people to try to get something for nothing, it's just really nice to deal with really reasonable people.

 

Next time though, don't be so fast to accept responsibility. Sleep on it and give yourself time to think. Most of the time, people are going to be pointing fingers at you deservedly or not anyhow and you pointing fingers at yourself gives you little chance to do whats right. What happened with the insurance claim? Make sure it is taken off your record with them if you can, follow up on that issue.

Whenever something happens I try to first handle it in house and so far! knock on wood , it's worked out every time.

  • Like 1

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.
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