2016 Presidential Elections Thread

[TheTrustedMechanic]

your right, 60 million voted for, among other things, a known criminal, hypocrite, bigot and liar. How stupid can you be?

You're right, they voted for Trump.

As I've written before, every legitimate complaint you can lodge against Hillary Clinton is also true, often to a more egregious degree, regarding Trump. The only difference is when the list against Hillary ends, the list against Trump continues for miles.

[HarrytheCarGeek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCabT_O0YSM

Edited November 10, 2016 by HarrytheCarGeek

[kars]

You are correct. But one thing that proves out once again is that HATE is an extremely powerful force. It was HATE that propelled Trump to his win. From his acceptance speech I am also cautiously optimistic that he will be a better president than he promised to be on the campaign trail. One thing I am curious of, you say we, "...desire is the chance to live free and to profit from the work of our hands and sweat of our brow without being told everything we can and cannot do or to have what we labor for all taken away." How is what we labor for taken away? Do you mean by taxes? If so do you not realize all of the intangible ways the government serves the people and that we owe a debt for those services, even if we don't realize that we benefit? Or are you also unaware of the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson regarding progressive taxation? If this is not what you meant by having the results of our labors taken away, I apologize and humbly ask that you alliterate your thoughts. Otherwise, Yes, I agree with the rest of your comment.

What would Jefferson say about this?

#1 Air Transportation Taxes (just look at how much you were charged the last time you flew)

#2 Biodiesel Fuel Taxes

#3 Building Permit Taxes

#4 Business Registration Fees

#5 Capital Gains Taxes

#6 Cigarette Taxes

#7 Court Fines (indirect taxes)

#8 Disposal Fees

#9 Dog License Taxes

#10 Drivers License Fees (another form of taxation)

#11 Employer Health Insurance Mandate Tax

#12 Employer Medicare Taxes

#13 Employer Social Security Taxes

#14 Environmental Fees

#15 Estate Taxes

#16 Excise Taxes On Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans

#17 Federal Corporate Taxes

#18 Federal Income Taxes

#19 Federal Unemployment Taxes

#20 Fishing License Taxes

#21 Flush Taxes (yes, this actually exists in some areas)

#22 Food And Beverage License Fees

#23 Franchise Business Taxes

#24 Garbage Taxes

#25 Gasoline Taxes

#26 Gift Taxes

#27 Gun Ownership Permits

#28 Hazardous Material Disposal Fees

#29 Highway Access Fees

#30 Hotel Taxes (these are becoming quite large in some areas)

#31 Hunting License Taxes

#32 Import Taxes

#33 Individual Health Insurance Mandate Taxes

#34 Inheritance Taxes

#35 Insect Control Hazardous Materials Licenses

#36 Inspection Fees

#37 Insurance Premium Taxes

#38 Interstate User Diesel Fuel Taxes

#39 Inventory Taxes

#40 IRA Early Withdrawal Taxes

#41 IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)

#42 IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)

#43 Library Taxes

#44 License Plate Fees

#45 Liquor Taxes

#46 Local Corporate Taxes

#47 Local Income Taxes

#48 Local School Taxes

#49 Local Unemployment Taxes

#50 Luxury Taxes

#51 Marriage License Taxes

#52 Medicare Taxes

#53 Medicare Tax Surcharge On High Earning Americans Under Obamacare

#54 Obamacare Individual Mandate Excise Tax (if you don't buy "qualifying" health insurance under Obamacare you will have to pay an additional tax)

#55 Obamacare Surtax On Investment Income (a new 3.8% surtax on investment income)

#56 Parking Meters

#57 Passport Fees

#58 Professional Licenses And Fees (another form of taxation)

#59 Property Taxes

#60 Real Estate Taxes

#61 Recreational Vehicle Taxes

#62 Registration Fees For New Businesses

#63 Toll Booth Taxes

#64 Sales Taxes

#65 Self-Employment Taxes

#66 Sewer & Water Taxes

#67 School Taxes

#68 Septic Permit Taxes

#69 Service Charge Taxes

#70 Social Security Taxes

#71 Special Assessments For Road Repairs Or Construction

#72 Sports Stadium Taxes

#73 State Corporate Taxes

#74 State Income Taxes

#75 State Park Entrance Fees

#76 State Unemployment Taxes (SUTA)

#77 Tanning Taxes (a new Obamacare tax on tanning services)

#78 Telephone 911 Service Taxes

#79 Telephone Federal Excise Taxes

#80 Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Taxes

#81 Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Taxes

#82 Telephone State And Local Taxes

#83 Telephone Universal Access Taxes

#84 The Alternative Minimum Tax

#85 Tire Recycling Fees

#86 Tire Taxes

#87 Tolls (another form of taxation)

#88 Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)

#89 Use Taxes (Out of state purchases, etc.)

#90 Utility Taxes

#91 Vehicle Registration Taxes

#92 Waste Management Taxes

#93 Water Rights Fees

#94 Watercraft Registration & Licensing Fees

#95 Well Permit Fees

#96 Workers Compensation Taxes

#97 Zoning Permit Fees

 

1 - The U.S. tax code is now 3.8 million words long. If you took all of William Shakespeare's works and collected them together, the entire collection would only be about 900,000 words long.

2 - According to the National Taxpayers Union, U.S. taxpayers spend more than 7.6 billion hours complying with federal tax requirements. Imagine what our society would look like if all that time was spent on more economically profitable activities.

3 - 75 years ago, the instructions for Form 1040 were two pages long. Today, they are 189 pages long.

4 - There have been 4,428 changes to the tax code over the last decade. It is incredibly costly to change tax software, tax manuals and tax instruction booklets for all of those changes.

5 - According to the National Taxpayers Union, the IRS currently has 1,999 different publications, forms, and instruction sheets that you can download from the IRS website.

6 - Our tax system has become so complicated that it is almost impossible to file your taxes correctly. For example, back in 1998 Money Magazine had 46 different tax professionals complete a tax return for a hypothetical household. All 46 of them came up with a different result.

7 - In 2009, PC World had five of the most popular tax preparation software websites prepare a tax return for a hypothetical household. All five of them came up with a different result.

8 - The IRS spends $2.45 for every $100 that it collects in taxes.

9 - According to The Tax Foundation, the average American has to work until April 17th just to pay federal, state, and local taxes. Back in 1900, "Tax Freedom Day" came on January 22nd.

10 - When the U.S. government first implemented a personal income tax back in 1913, the vast majority of the population paid a rate of just 1 percent, and the highest marginal tax rate was just 7 percent.

[TheTrustedMechanic]

Okay, I’m going to be blunt here, the sheer stupidity of your list would be astonishing if it weren’t so typical. But do tell us, what propaganda site did you lift your list from?

 

But as to the list itself, I won’t bore everyone with a long diatribe addressing each and every individual item but let’s just pick a few, and I bet you will deny the facts I am about to put forth simply because you are told not to believe the truth.

#1 – All actions of government cost money. The users should pay. Do you think the TSA, for good or for bad, is free? Do you think the airlines pay the whole cost? What about the regulations that govern the maintenance, safety and other requirements of that aircraft? Do you think the airlines provide those oxygen masks out of the goodness of their hearts? I don’t see you complaining about the airline’s fees, such as boarding fees, checked bag fees.

#5 – Income is income regardless of source. It should all be taxed as income, not some special cave out for those who do not work for that money. Of course we need capital, and we need investment but you can’t honestly sit there and say that the Capital Gains rate isn’t exploited unfairly.

#9 – Do you want your neighbor’s dog running around? Or do you want to know that dog that just bit your kid has an ID traceable to the owner and that the owner has had the dog properly vaccinated do your kid doesn’t’ contract rabies or other diseases?

#10 – Do you think it’s free to issue your driver license and maintain the database that is connected with it? Do you know how many things use your driver license? Our local library uses your driver license as your library card. Seriously, they take your license and swipe it through a reader like a credit card.

#23 – You complain about the government wanting a tax to ensure that the franchisee isn’t abused by the franchisor but you’re okay with the exorbitant fees some franchisors pay?

#2, #25, #44, #85, #86, #91 – ALL contribute to the infrastructure that supports the use of automobiles. And from the condition of our roads, bridges and tunnels, those taxes aren’t sufficient. How do you think your business would fare if there were no road for your customers to travel on to get to you? “I would just build it and maintain it myself,” you say? Well isn’t that far more costly than the all of these taxes combined?

#22 – Go ahead, drink that drink that was just poured before the glass was dropped and shattered. Not knowing if the shards landed in your drink or all went on the counter. Go ahead and eat that food made with milk that was left out on the counter overnight with rats scurrying around and cockroaches in the cabinets. Eat off that plates that were just rinsed and wiped off instead of washed with real soap.

#32 – You do know that import taxes or tariffs are used by nearly EVERY COUNTRY on the planet right? They were even a large source of funding for the government in the early days of this country. Not to mention that inspecting the cargo being imported to ensure that invasive species are minimized, dangerous goods are being mishandled and such costs money. Or don’t you care that a load of fruit came in with an invasive beetle that will destroy all the trees on your property costing you thousands of dollars to remove.

#40 – This tax is intended to deter you from looting your retirement funds. Not to mention that the money put in that 401(k) was untaxed when it was invested. So since it wasn’t taxed then it is now.

#60 – This is how most local governments gather the funds to operate. You know, clear snow in the winter, fund parks and offer fire and police protection among a multitude of other services. But you thought all that was free, didn’t you?

 

All of your footnotes whine and complain about the complexity of the tax code. But did you know that the tax code is as complex as it is because of the special interests that control our government? Simplifying the tax code would require many oxen to be gored. Which of your sacred cows are you willing to sacrifice for a simplified tax code? Regarding the footnotes #9 & #10, back then, the US government did not serve as the world’s police, we did not have the security concerns we have now because among other things we didn’t have

Computers

Nucular weapons (since you seem on par with W’s mentality, I thought it appropriate

A destabilized Middle East because of the shenanigans of the baby bush (mis)administration

 

Likewise in that same era a family could be supported well on one income. Costs have increased significantly. The population has increased significantly. The demands on government services (and NOT just welfare) has increased significantly.

 

When you can conduct a serious, intelligent, honest discussion, let’s talk. But as long as you are going to post this idiotic, ignorant tripe, you are proving yourself to be nothing but a weak-minded parrot, mindlessly repeating what you’re told to say and believe.

[TheTrustedMechanic]

What would Jefferson say about this?

1 - The U.S. tax code is now 3.8 million words long. If you took all of William Shakespeare's works and collected them together, the entire collection would only be about 900,000 words long.

2 - According to the National Taxpayers Union, U.S. taxpayers spend more than 7.6 billion hours complying with federal tax requirements. Imagine what our society would look like if all that time was spent on more economically profitable activities.

3 - 75 years ago, the instructions for Form 1040 were two pages long. Today, they are 189 pages long.

4 - There have been 4,428 changes to the tax code over the last decade. It is incredibly costly to change tax software, tax manuals and tax instruction booklets for all of those changes.

5 - According to the National Taxpayers Union, the IRS currently has 1,999 different publications, forms, and instruction sheets that you can download from the IRS website.

6 - Our tax system has become so complicated that it is almost impossible to file your taxes correctly. For example, back in 1998 Money Magazine had 46 different tax professionals complete a tax return for a hypothetical household. All 46 of them came up with a different result.

7 - In 2009, PC World had five of the most popular tax preparation software websites prepare a tax return for a hypothetical household. All five of them came up with a different result.

8 - The IRS spends $2.45 for every $100 that it collects in taxes.

9 - According to The Tax Foundation, the average American has to work until April 17th just to pay federal, state, and local taxes. Back in 1900, "Tax Freedom Day" came on January 22nd.

10 - When the U.S. government first implemented a personal income tax back in 1913, the vast majority of the population paid a rate of just 1 percent, and the highest marginal tax rate was just 7 percent.

After becoming literate on the subject he would ask you,

"What special tax treatments that you receive are you willing to give up in order to simplify the tax code?"

And by "special tax treatments" he would mean deductions, credits, write-offs, etc.

 

I propose a modified flat tax. Allow a deduction for the size of your family based on the government calculated poverty level in your area and then tax the rest at a flat tax. If you think this still leaves room for chicanery then perhaps set a single amount, indexed for inflation and leave it alone. Or have it revisited every 10 years but the standards to be used are cast in stone, no alterations, no tweaks or exemptions. No other deductions, no other write-offs, nothing. If you make $100,000, and the "poverty level" deduction is $30,000 for your family size, you pay tax on the $70,000 "surplus." That way everyone receives the same basic allowance for the cost of living, or merely existing. Since the cost of living in California is higher than in rural South Dakota, the California resident has to earn more in order to simply survive. After that standard deduction, the more you make the more you pay. Capital gains would become regular income and corporate earnings could be taxed at a lower rate. Corporations/businesses still receive government services and protections therefore they should be required to pay something in tax.

[Jeff]

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[Jeff]

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[HarrytheCarGeek]

Likewise in that same era a family could be supported well on one income

Trusted yes they could..now will you give up your big screen..3 phones..4 computers? How many cars set in your driveway? We spend more today because of the materialistic nature of the modern society. You live to the degree you can afford and when you can afford no more it is someone else fault. Aint buyin it..NO ONE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU BUT YOU!

 

 

Jeff, I like your post.

 

But you know, one can be responsible for oneself, but in the way the economic system operates, you know "bank notes", IOUs, the system draws you into the collective. The way it is designed, you cannot only be responsible for yourself, one also signs up to take care of others just by using their "hybrid credit/monetary system."

[Jeff]

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[FROGFINDER]

Election Result? The Digital world lost to the Real World. I've told people for years that sooner or later they will look at their smart phone with terror and run away screaming in despair.

[Shopcat]

Harry is spot on. Those that are uninformed of of our national history are bound to repeat it, and they are easy to steer with rhetoric. Besides not teaching mush civics, American history, etc. we also do not teach analytical thinking. Common sense used to be...common, then it became uncommon, and I believe it is almost a superpower at this point. The next generation has no resolve. Look at the emotional snowflakes after Trump won on election night. God help the USA.

[bigdonstang]

It appears the greatest generation bred the worst generation who ultimately gave America the choice between Stalin in a pants suit or a pumpkin spice Hitler.