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Posted

Ok, before you all begin assaulting and attacking me for being a half ass mechanic...let me explain:

 

I AM NOT posting this because I make a practice of replacing only one brake rotor or because I want to argue a case in favor of such practice. I, like most of you I imagine, have always been taught and trained to replace/refinish brake rotors ONLY in pairs. NO EXCEPTIONS. Or else the world will explode! haha...ok, well, maybe not the world I guess. But presumably something really bad will happen.

 

But do any of you ever get asked by the customer WHY you had to replace both rotors when only one was "bad"? What do you tell them? Do you just make something up, spout off the same generic response that your old boss/instructor/teacher/mentor, etc. told to you about how you need rotors of the same thickness for equal stopping force blah blah blah or do you actually KNOW the concrete scientific reasoning behind this "universal truth"? I myself am a little fuzzy on the details. It seems like I am constantly having to explain to customers that I had to replace BOTH brake rotors, but when they ask me why, I don't really know exactly. I'm hoping you guys can help me out with either a detailed explanation or a link to some technical artical that will explain it.

 

I will also accept personal experience as evidence such as "I tried replacing only one rotor one time and the customer was back the very next week in a full body cast with his lawyer pushing the wheel chair."

 

Ready: GO

Posted

I was taught that it maintains even braking. If the old rotor is thinner it will build heat and thus fade faster than the new one. That in turn will develop a brake pull that could cause loss of control.

I believe this is the correct answer, although I think the potential safety issue is very minimal IMO. Don't forget that you almost always have a slight brake pull due to the crown of the road.

I also think that refinishing/replacing in pairs is to keep both sides wearing at the same rate, so if one is worn out, the other will be soon to follow.

That being said, I work at a heavy duty dealership at the moment, and we regularly replace single rotors on commercial trucks with disc brakes if the other is still within spec.

 

If I was in your situation, I'd measure the "good" rotor, estimate how much time is left before it fails, and inform the customer.

Educate them to the cost of fixing it now vs returning for another appointment where you have to disassemble that wheel end again.

Obviously recommend changing rotors in pairs, but if they don't want to, I wouldn't press the issue.

If the rotor will last until their next scheduled maintenance, maybe they'd want to have it replaced then, always give your customer the choice.

  • Like 1
Posted

This is a really good question. I would say 'technically' you can replace just 1 rotor. After all, if the other one is within spec... it's within spec! I would say 'replacing as a pair' is probably more of a good practice, IE Jeff - " If the old rotor is thinner it will build heat and thus fade faster than the new one. That in turn will develop a brake pull that could cause loss of control" .

 

I would also agree, now that I think about it, that I don't recall reading or hearing any official material say that they should be replaced in pairs... Maybe a quick google search would turn something up?

Posted

I think the brake pull is a good answer but could lead to the question of if you think its unsafe then why would you perform that practice and open yourself up for potential law suit after admitting to cust that it could cause loss of control. I usually play the economic card...saves money to do it now. Then let cust decide, assuming rotor is within spec.

  • 1 year later...
Posted (edited)

i always use things that people can relate to like the LP record and the sun analogy. Heat will warp a record like heat will warp the rotors.. so in this case i tell customers that brake rotors should be replace together because they both have to be the same thickness and then i tell them if they would you ever consider buying only one shoe. if only one shoe gets worn will they just buy that warn shoe? after that what can you say "I under stand, go ahead and replace them.." Done "Change them Bob..."

Edited by uniautoser
Posted

I will do one rotor as long as I turn both the rotors for a matching finish. Of course the other rotor needs to be within spec after the refinish. This scenario does not come along often for me.

Posted

i always use things that people can relate to like the LP record and the sun analogy. Heat will warp a record like heat will warp the rotors.. so in this case i tell customers that brake rotors should be replace together because they both have to be the same thickness and then i tell them if they would you ever consider buying only one shoe. if only one shoe gets worn will they just buy that warn shoe? after that what can you say "I under stand, go ahead and replace them.." Done "Change them Bob..."

Most of my clients have never played an LP Record, and if I used that term most would not have a clue what I was talking about. I have not seen one out of its protective sleeve in well over 30 years!!

 

With that said, When I give a price on performing the brake job on a vehicle that is in the shop with wheels off and inspection finished, I give the price for the brake job. I do not mention pads or more importantly, rotors. I tell them that the price for the front brakes is $388 for example, and that the rear brakes are ok at this time. I would say that on 80% or more of my brake jobs I install new rotors. We do not machine rotors.

Posted

Replacing rotors in pairs helps keep consistency in maintenance, and safety. By doing so you remove the guessing game of when you need to do it again, and basically the customer trades some dollars for convenience and certainty.

 

Kinda, doing light bulbs in pairs, you know, I am sure you had a customer come in for a burned out headlight bulb and a few weeks later he comes in again for the other one.

 

There are customers that if you explain to them that they may have to comeback for the other bulb, they dispense with the inconvenience and tell you to do both.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.
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