Oil Change Service Interval

[xrac]

Like the ’55 Chevy, the 3,000-Mile Oil Change Is Pretty Much History

 

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Like-the-55-Chevy-the-nytimes-3825041162.html?x=0&mod=pf-family-home

 

I saw this article today and my opinion is that the general public is being given bad advice.

“There was a time when the 3,000 miles was a good guideline,” said Philip Reed, senior consumer advice editor for the car site Edmunds.com. “But it’s no longer true for any car bought in the last seven or eight years.” Oil chemistry and engine technology have improved to the point that most cars can go several thousand more miles before changing the oil, Mr. Reed said. A better average, he said, would be 7,500 between oil changes, and sometimes up to 10,000 miles or more.

 

I personally change my oil at 3,000 miles and if someone wants to push it I wouldn't advise going beyond 4,000. I have saw far too many vehicles with engine trouble and failure due to sludging. Today we are servicing a 2009 Ford F-150. The leasing company is using a 5,000 mile interval on its oil changes but is not taking into acccount the fact that this vehicle is never shutoff due to the equipment on board until the end of the day once it is started up. The hours it runs far exceeds the mileage driven. We recently had to install lifters in a 2006 Dodge Ram pickup with a Hemi due to pushing the service intervals. This customer is now a confirmed 3,000 mile oil change interval adherent aftering spending $1,700.

 

Besides sludging issues we have saw on many vehicles I am firmly convinced that having someone change the oil and look at a vehicle every 3,000 miles or 3 months is a service the consumer needs. Often we catch other problems and can fix them before they become big ticket repairs.

[DewayneP]

To my conventional oil customers I advise 3000 miles. A few of them go with the owners manual that says 5000 miles. For the synthetic (full) customers I advise 5000 miles. I have one customer that I tried to get to go to synthetic for the extended drain interval and better overall protection for lower cost overall. He said: "that means I won't be able to stop by and chat as much, no thanks, I'll stick with conventional". He's my best OC customer along with his children. He knows the value he's getting by keeping the oil in his vehicles changed. I also have one customer that drives a Mercedes. She gets full synthetic and follows the owners manual that states 10,000 miles. I think that's a little too long, but it is her car. I think we are going to see a lot more people follopwing the owner's manual and going to very extended drain intervals. I also predict we will see a lot more vehicles not making it past 100-150k miles because the engine sludged up and oil couldn't get where it needed to. It is the customer's vehicle, after all, and they can do what they want with it. All I can do is advise them and let them make the decision. My decision to stick with 3000 mile intervals says a lot about what I'm preaching.

Edited September 15, 2010 by DewayneP

[CARMandP]

I do 3000 mile service when I use conventional oil. I am a dealer for Amsoil products and use a lot of their XL series oil which is 7500 mile oil so I recommend that interval with their oil. I change the oil every 5-7k on my own personal van (which I use Amsoil in) and just recently did a full service (valve covers removed) at 195k and there is no sludging and the engine is clean. I will continue to use that interval on my own vehicles.

[TheTrustedMechanic]

I also read that article and wasn't impressed. I drive 25 miles one way to work with 17 being pure highway so I change my oil between 3-5000. My stock oil is a synthetic blend so my customers are able to go a little longer if they desire. I have one customer who refuses to follow the owner's manual's 7500. He does all the periodic maintenance and gets his oil changed every 5000. He has a Caravan with a 3.0L that he's owned since new and it's pushing 190K now, and still going strong. Says a lot about proper maintenance. But try to get people to pay for something they see no advantage from. I think that is one of the primary driving forces behind the extended oil change intervals. That and the manufacturer's desire to sell more cars by conning the customer into what the rest of us know is neglect.

 

I was amused when I was checking the maintenance schedule on a customer's Honda Element. Honda calls for oil changes every 10,000 miles but recommends the filter be changed every other oil change. That's right new oil every 10,000 but a new filter every 20,000. On a filter that would easily fit in a pop can. I told my customer I would not change the oil without changing the filter too, he agreed.

 

But the manufacturer's claim their extended intervals is due to vastly superior oils. And that's why we now have GM Dexos, and a myriad of other specifications. It's just a numbers game. By GM having their spec, the eurotrash having their spec. and API, ACEA and others having their own specs. an oil manufacturer could spend billions just to test and certify their oils to the various specifications. Does that mean the $18.95 oil change is dead? No way, there are still hacks out there that will do it and customers that are too ignorant, and not by their own fault, that will buy into it. It simply is another pitfall for the motoring public and the repair shops that don't keep up on the standards. And another revenue stream for the manufacturers, both in the certification process and in selling more cars because their junk was damaged by "inferior" oils. What happened to genuine concern for your customers? Oh, yeah it was displaced by greed and demand for outsized profits and CEO bonuses.

[xrac]

The 3,000-mile oil change 'myth'

It turns out your car might drive fine for 10,000 miles without new oil — no matter what Jiffy Lube tells you. A quick guide

 

That regular oil change is a thing of the past thanks to advanced engines and improved oil chemistry. Photo: Corbis

Growing up, most of us learned to religiously change our car's oil every 3,000 miles, says Alina Tugend in The New York Times. "But sometimes we need to throw aside our parents' good advice," and this is one of them. Consumer advocates and environmentalists are increasingly vocal about pointing out that newer cars can often go 10,000 miles between oil changes. Why has the "3,000-mile myth" persisted — and is it really a myth?

Where did the 3,000-mile rule come from?

Every 3,000 miles used to be "a good guideline," says Philip Reed at Edmunds.com — not to mention a quasi-mantra repeated by mechanics and parents. But people no longer need to "do what their dad did with his '55 Chevy," says Kristen Huff, a representative of the oil-testing service Blackstone Laboratories.

What's changed?

Technology. In the past eight years or so, engine advances and oil-chemistry breakthroughs have made newer cars capable of going at least 7,500 miles, or even 15,000 miles, between changes.

Why hasn't the 3,000-mile rule kept pace?

Tradition and marketing. "The Jiffy Lubes of the world have done a good job convincing people" of the need for new oil every three months or 3,000 miles, says Honda spokesman Chris Martin. Also, "3,000 miles strikes a deep chord with the consumer," Edmunds' Reed says. "It feels good to get an oil change." Received wisdom is hard to shake, laments Susan Reimer in The Baltimore Sun: I've staked "my authority as family conscience" on "preaching the 3,000-mile doctrine...if I have been wrong about oil changes, what else have I been wrong about?"

What happens if you change the oil too infrequently?

"The oil becomes less effective as a lubricant," says Mark Huffman at the website Consumer Affairs, and "the engine parts can quickly wear out."

 

So, how often should I change my oil?

It depends on your car's age and make, and whether you primarily use it for short distances or longer hauls. With vehicles built before 2002, "you should probably stick with a 3,000 mile oil change," says Huffman. For later models, "Cars.com experts split the difference" between 3,000 and 10,000 miles, offering a "best estimate" of every 5,000 miles for the "vast majority" of cars. For model-specific advice, check your car's manual, or this chart created by California's waste management board.

Should I just ignore the oil-change reminder on my front windshield?

If you've done your research and think your car should go 7,500 miles between changes, "ask questions" when "the mechanic slaps on a [3,000 miles] sticker," says Alina Tugend in The Times. Be careful, though, says Anthony Gelinas at European Cars. The mechanic offering the "cheap change" at the "local quick lube" is probably being told to put in lesser-quality oil that needs to be changed more often. If you want to go 10,000 miles between changes, go to your dealer.

Sources: New York Times, Baltimore Sun, European Car, Consumer Affairs, UW Madison Post, CalRecycle

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[Junior]

We use the factory recommended service interval for all later model cars (roughly 2000 and newer). If a manufacturer states an extended service interval (over 5,000) and does note require synthetic we recommend synthetic. We only use oils that comply with the manufacturer spec. We stock mobil oils in both conventional and synthetic.

 

Older cars we do 3k on conventional, 5k on synthetic.

[Joe Marconi]

We use the factory recommended service interval for all later model cars (roughly 2000 and newer). If a manufacturer states an extended service interval (over 5,000) and does note require synthetic we recommend synthetic. We only use oils that comply with the manufacturer spec. We stock mobil oils in both conventional and synthetic.

 

Older cars we do 3k on conventional, 5k on synthetic.

 

We do pretty much the same as you do.

[Jeffrey]

I am a big fan of Synthetic oils. Amsoil is my oil of choice and about 75% of my customers use it. I have had 0 complaints and many exciting experiences with it. regular motor oil has been proven to sludge engines and looses its ability to protect engines quickly. If I am persuaded to use regular oil 3,000 miles with a WIX filter are required. Premium filters are not just for premium oils, Remember the oil filter has to filter out particles that get by that dirty air filter. My oil of choice is Amsoil XL for 7500 miles with a WIX filter. I take the extra time to consider each vehicle, How its driven, What its used for and its condition. Honda now recommends 10,000 miles, I wouldn't do that with less than Amsoil XL, Wix, and at least a monthly check of the oil level.

[Brianp]

3k on most 5k on others thats all. I couldnt reply to the poll since it only gives one answer

[Brianp]

I am a big fan of Synthetic oils. Amsoil is my oil of choice and about 75% of my customers use it. I have had 0 complaints and many exciting experiences with it. regular motor oil has been proven to sludge engines and looses its ability to protect engines quickly. If I am persuaded to use regular oil 3,000 miles with a WIX filter are required. Premium filters are not just for premium oils, Remember the oil filter has to filter out particles that get by that dirty air filter. My oil of choice is Amsoil XL for 7500 miles with a WIX filter. I take the extra time to consider each vehicle, How its driven, What its used for and its condition. Honda now recommends 10,000 miles, I wouldn't do that with less than Amsoil XL, Wix, and at least a monthly check of the oil level.

 

 

I dont believe in this. What is the maintenance period once the warranty is expired?

[Junior]

I dont believe in this. What is the maintenance period once the warranty is expired?

 

True for most manufacturers. Honda lists service intervals up to 150k, most manufacturers do the same or greater. I've yet to see one over 200 though.

 

and at least a monthly check of the oil level.

 

This is the kicker with extended service intervals. Small use of oil is normal and people should expect it. Most economy cars do not have oil level or quality sensors so without regular checks the oil light is the only way they know they're low, and we all know that's far to late. Down a quart in 3k might rarely happen but down a quart in 7.5k and up is almost expected especially on high mileage engines.

[Joe Marconi]

The car makers are removing more and more services from the owner’s manual and are extending the required oil change interval. For some fluids, there is no recommended service recommendation. This is ridiculous on the part of the car maker. Car manufacturers are in the “CAR SALES” business, not the car service business.

 

They also want to paint a picture that their car model needs very little maintenance. Well if that were the true then why don’t they warranty the car for life? If they never require replacing the transmission fluid, or brake fluid or whatever fluid, then why don’t the car manufacturers warranty the component, (that the fluid is protecting), for life? We all know the real reason…

 

We had Mercedes (AWD) in the other day with a harsh moaning noise from the rear on sharp turns. The car had 150k on the clock. We recommended a driveline service, which solved the problem. THE BATTLE was to convince the car owner...he kept on saying, " Service the fluids?, it's not in the book". Finally I said to him, if you are referring to the owners manual, it does not state to replace brakes, wipers, tires or put gas in the tank either!

[xrac]

.......We had Mercedes (AWD) in the other day with a harsh moaning noise from the rear on sharp turns. The car had 150k on the clock. We recommended a driveline service, which solved the problem. THE BATTLE was to convince the car owner...he kept on saying, " Service the fluids?, it's not in the book". Finally I said to him, if you are referring to the owners manual, it does not state to replace brakes, wipers, tires or put gas in the tank either!

 

Great comeback and answer Joe!

[R.O.C.]

I DO 3,000 ON CONVENTIONAL OIL AND 5,000 ON SYNTHETIC OIL... I USE NAPA OILS AND FILTERS UNLESS CUSTOMER ASK FOR A DIFFERENT BRAND

[TheTrustedMechanic]

Finally I said to him, if you are referring to the owners manual, it does not state to replace brakes, wipers, tires or put gas in the tank either!

 

Love that response Joe, talk about tact.

 

 

On the topic of the oil change intervals and Honda recommending 10,000 mile intervals I noticed no one mentioned that their filter would fit in a pop can and Honda recommends replacing it every 20,000 miles.

 

In my shop, for most cars I use a group 2 base stock semi-synthetic oil in the 5w20, 5w30 and 10w30 flavors. I always check AllData for the fluid specifications and if my oil doesn't match I will price out the oil change with the proper oil. I will not buy an engine because I knowingly used the wrong oil. I have customers who request 5,000 mile intervals so I do that and they have no problems. Otherwise I use a standard filter and follow the manufacturer's maintenance schedule. I counsel my customers on the "Severe" Service vs "Normal" service definitions and most fall within the "severe" service definition which typically calls for 3000 mile intervals anyway. And I print my own oil change stickers on my laser printer and I have a line for the mileage interval so my customers know and if they want to go longer or shorter they have the knowledge to do so.

[FROGFINDER]

It is wise to have any vehicle inspected from time to time. We are seeing more vehicles ruined by loss of or contamination of vital fluids. If you take care of your fluids your hard parts take care of themselves. Higher gas prices will change our future in car repair.

 

 

[FxsX24]

Do any shops go by the GM OLM feature when using the required oil?

Edited March 30, 2012 by FxsX24

[Joe Marconi]

Do any shops go by the GM OLM feature when using the required oil?

 

No, I have found that those customers that go by the oil maint light are coming in with way over 10,000 miles on the oil. And when that happens, the tires are worn from lack of rotation, lack of tire pressure (some even ignore the TPMS light) the wipers are ripped and digging into the windsheild, etc. No one checks their own car like they should. Extended interval can lead to other neglected key maintenance areas.

 

Under ideal conditions, the oil "may" be ok, but when you tell somone don't worry about the oil change untill the monitor tells you to, can be asking for trouble. I had a customer with a new Honda, she was told by the salesman not to change the oil untill the monitor light came on. She called us becuase she was concerned that the oil life still show about 40% and she had over 12,000 miles on the car with the original oil in the engine!

 

I think the factory is doing and injustice to the consumer by promoting exteded oil services and by removing so much maintenance services from the owner's manual. I guess the car makers feel that if the car is well-maintained it will last too long and that would hurt new car sales????

[FROGFINDER]

No, I have found that those customers that go by the oil maint light are coming in with way over 10,000 miles on the oil. And when that happens, the tires are worn from lack of rotation, lack of tire pressure (some even ignore the TPMS light) the wipers are ripped and digging into the windsheild, etc. No one checks their own car like they should. Extended interval can lead to other neglected key maintenance areas.

 

Under ideal conditions, the oil "may" be ok, but when you tell somone don't worry about the oil change untill the monitor tells you to, can be asking for trouble. I had a customer with a new Honda, she was told by the salesman not to change the oil untill the monitor light came on. She called us becuase she was concerned that the oil life still show about 40% and she had over 12,000 miles on the car with the original oil in the engine!

 

I think the factory is doing and injustice to the consumer by promoting exteded oil services and by removing so much maintenance services from the owner's manual. I guess the car makers feel that if the car is well-maintained it will last too long and that would hurt new car sales????

 

You speak the truth.

But if our industry model is to up sell every oil change we will see resistance with $5.00 per gallon gas.

[Junior]

No, I have found that those customers that go by the oil maint light are coming in with way over 10,000 miles on the oil. And when that happens, the tires are worn from lack of rotation, lack of tire pressure (some even ignore the TPMS light) the wipers are ripped and digging into the windsheild, etc. No one checks their own car like they should. Extended interval can lead to other neglected key maintenance areas.

 

This is why we sell "service" not oil changes. As an industry of service and repair shops we can keep an informed customer that trusts us to maintain their vehicle. They understand that the service we offer is complete and for this service they expect to pay more than a discount place. We encourage our customers to stop in for a checkup in between. Most of our customers know to call or stop in whenever a dashboard warning comes on. This comes from having good communication with the customer and earning their respect and trust. We have had many customers try out the discount route, almost always they come back. Usually after their vehicle has suffered unfortunately.

 

Currently I am developing new software to keep in touch better with the customer and proactively maintain their vehicles. This will be done with predictive reporting based on previous visits and driving habits. Customer interaction will be done though SMS messaging and email based on customer preference and I'm even working on an Android app to link customer maintenance directly to our shop including customer self service as it comes to appointment making. We are putting in this effort because we see a significantly greater profit in maintenance than we do in most repairs. Plus with good maintenance you have a strong relationship that guarantees the repairs come to you. This is paramount in expanding and maintaining a profitable business level in what is becoming an increasingly competitive marketplace.

 

We are in a developing industry and as a survivor in that industry we must continue to move forward and embrace both industry technology changes as well as changes in consumer behaviors. You can choose to innovate and differentiate yourself and your company or you can try to compete with the discount places and we all know who the winners and loosers are in that game.