QUICK BOOKS PRO AND PAYROLL

[DUFRESNES]

I am fuming!   January I paid $504 for QB payroll renewal for 2023.  I just got an email saying they were going to charge $559. April 6 for 2023 QB.  Then they charge according to how many employees we have.  This come to over 1183 per year.  We have RO Writer  and pay them monthly that goes to the Back office, we pay them and then it dumps into QB.  There must be a better way.  Tell me what you are using for payroll and Bookkeeping.    Tell me there must be a better way.

[Joe Marconi]

23 minutes ago, DUFRESNES said:

I am fuming!   January I paid $504 for QB payroll renewal for 2023.  I just got an email saying they were going to charge $559. April 6 for 2023 QB.  Then they charge according to how many employees we have.  This come to over 1183 per year.  We have RO Writer  and pay them monthly that goes to the Back office, we pay them and then it dumps into QB.  There must be a better way.  Tell me what you are using for payroll and Bookkeeping.    Tell me there must be a better way.

That is hard to believe from QB! I don't blame you for being upset.  There are no other options?  Have you tried to reach out to them?  I know the past few years they have been a growing company, and not the same company that I first started with them, years back. 

 

[DUFRESNES]

Joe, I have chatted 2 times and called.  That's just the way it is, they say.. There has to be another answer.  We also Pay RO Writer $469 monthly and Back office for doing the merge of RO Writer to QB

[Joe Marconi]

1 hour ago, DUFRESNES said:

Joe, I have chatted 2 times and called.  That's just the way it is, they say.. There has to be another answer.  We also Pay RO Writer $469 monthly and Back office for doing the merge of RO Writer to QB

That is hard to accept.  I feel for you. You may not know, but I recently sold my company, so I am not up to date with QB. I did use them for probably 20 years or so.  Let me do a little digging to see if I can find out more info.  

[Transmission Repair]

I used QB 100% and didn't have an SMS because it was way cheaper.  It took a lot of hours to figure out how to design estimates, invoices, reports & more, but after I got a grip on QB, it was all downhill from there.  I ran QB in parallel with our SMS for 2 years just to get the hang of QB.  It took me almost 2 years of learning (part-time.)  The learning curve is atrocious but pays off in the long run.  At least I'm not married to some mega-buck SMS program for ungodly monthly payments that never end.  Screw that.  We were paying (2015) around $700/yr. for annual updates, including payroll files.  That's less than $60/mo.!!!  BTW, QB did all of our payroll, too.  No matter what you pay, just figure it in with the cost of doing business.

[bantar]

Maybe I can make you feel better.  You can say "At least I'm not paying as much as THAT GUY!"     I use ADP for my payroll (weekly) and last year, my fees were just south of $4000.  🤕

[DUFRESNES]

I thought ADP was suppose to be so cheap  Hmmmmmm

[bantar]

I pay weekly about 13 checks x 52 weeks.  Averages out to about $6.09/person/paycheck.    Paying less often is cheaper.  (This is supposedly discounted 45% due to my CPA client discount vs me just calling and signing up.  Who knows?)  The advantage is that my CPA does not mess with payroll taxes and filings, so I pay less there.   They pull the money, escrow the taxes, create and file all of the needed state and federal tax forms.    All I have to do is enter hours / $'s.   Look at the total.  😭 Then press the go button.   😉  

Pretty much, CPA said he wouldn't work with me if I didn't use a payroll company.  He said that I'd screw it up, some way, some how, then it would be VERY expensive for him to fix my mess.   I'm about 99% sure that he was on target with this comment.

[Gerald Martin]

You might check out https://paymatesoftware.com/

I talked to one of their reps because they integrate with Protractor.   I thought their pricing was fair and their cloud software looked easy enough to learn.  I hope this helps someone!

Gerald

[bantar]

14 hours ago, Gerald Martin said:

You might check out https://paymatesoftware.com/

You've heard the expression that you can't teach an old dog 🐶 new tricks, right?   Well, my accountant is older than those dogs.  He doesn't like anything new!   So, I'm using a few programs that I might otherwise not want.    As well, I spoke with the Paar-Melis Accounting team at Vision and their pricing is about 40% higher than my accountant.   He knows this industry, is always accessible and otherwise doing good work, so I have no impetus to change at the moment.   No change means no new accounting toys for me!

 

P.S.  Hi Gerald!!!

[massns]

We pay QB payroll over $700/yr and were using QB Pro 2020 Desktop.  Since they are discontinuing support for 2020, they force you to upgrade and you can no longer purchase the software.  It is all subscription based now which will be more costly than before.  The desktop version is a $550/yr subscription, which you have to call QB sales to even get it.  It is not available online anywhere.  When you call to order, they will try to push you into going to their online platform which I didn't want to do after using the desktop version for over 20 years.  Like others have stated, it's the cost of doing business unfortunately.  

[DUFRESNES]

We had QB 2022, but January 6 QB cut us off if we didn't upgrade payroll to 2023.  We did for 506.00 plus so much per employee each.  Now April 6, they are going to charge us 559.00 for QB 2023 which we are using now.  I don't know how you are still using 2020. I am using QB pro and payroll 2023.  I also have Quicken at home and they shut that off also, if I don't upgrade.  Our IT guy said don't use QB online, nothing but problems

 

[billqual]

I hope Quickbooks figures out they shot their foot off with this change.  If you upgrade past 2020 and don't keep your subscription active you loose access to your data.

It's my understanding I can use Quickbooks 2020 desktop forever but will not have support, security updates or access to online things like payroll. 

I am sticking with 2020 and letting my payroll expire in May.  

It looks like ONPAY.com may be who I am going with, they state they integrate with Quickbooks.

I will be making the change when I close this quarter, fingers crossed it will be a smooth transition.

[DUFRESNES]

keep me posted.  I have ROW and that goes to the Back Office that then goes to QB.  So I need a program that will operate with ROW and The Back Office.  At home when they shut quicken off, I will have to find another program for Home use

I understand some people have not had to upgrade.

[billqual]

You must be using Quickbooks online.

I have ROWriter and the Back Office has a program on my computer that does the integration.

I don't know if you can find an older version of quickbooks and use your database.

In my research I found people that hadn't needed to update quickbooks for the last 15 years because they were not using quickbooks for their payroll. 

[DUFRESNES]

I have 2023 QB Desktop, NOT ONLINE.  What is the program that ROW integrates with?  Yes I am doing my payroll through QB.  Who or what is doing your payroll?

[billqual]

I am using Accounting Link by The Back Office to integrate ROW to QB.

Fortunately I did not upgrade to QB 2022 or 2023 before this change.

Here is a statement from QB about using 2023 without a subscription, maybe you don't have this version or can move to an older version/

Can I still use QuickBooks Desktop after subscription expires?

 

 

With QuickBooks Desktop 2023 R3 or newer, view-only access remains for 1 year after your subscription ends. In that time, you won't be able to edit your data with your inactive license. But, you can renew your subscription or export your data. To view your data after 1 year, you'll have to renew your subscription.Oct 27, 2022

[billqual]

Here is their statement about earlier versions.

What happens if you don't upgrade QuickBooks Desktop?

 

 

What happens if I don't upgrade to QuickBooks 2022? There won't be any immediate issues if you choose to continue using QuickBooks 2022; however, when QuickBooks Desktop for UK customers is discontinued in 2023, Intuit will stop releasing updates – including security updates.

[DUFRESNES]

Who do you do your payroll through.  If it is QB, then you will have to update, so  they say.

Again, I have Desktop QB Pro 2023 and QB Payroll 2023.  NONE ONLINE

[billqual]

I have used QB Desktop for the last 20 years. 

I bought the payroll subscription every year and updated QB Pro every 2-3 years when they said it would not integrate with payroll anymore.

With this latest change I have decided QB will not get another dime from me.

Next week I will be moving to this. They seem to be less expensive.  They state they will take my QB payroll data and merge it to their program and when I run a payroll I can merge it back into my QB Desktop.

 

[DUFRESNES]

I want to use a program other than QB.  that works with ROW and the Back Office.

 

[billqual]

I didn't find anything,  you might call the back office and ask what they work with. 

[DUFRESNES]

I did that and talked to ROW.  Still haven't come up with anything that will work

 

[billqual]

I think intuit bought the competition and now have us over a barrel. Everything I found was cloud based and a recurring subscription and even more expensive than QB.  Some of the SMS programs have accounting built in but changing everything is a pain and still doesn’t solve the problems.

[Gary Childs]

I been using QB's only for all my business and they are great. Watch out for the scammers that E-mail with QB's e-mails trying to get money out of you. They E-mails look like they are right from QB's but they are not. Try calling the phone number listed with a cell phone with the caller ID blocked, if they do not pick up the call they are the scammers.  

[DUFRESNES]

It looks like I am stuck with QB.  I can't find anything ay cheaper that does what they do.  If someone finds a good program, please let me know.  I understand they bought up a lot of the smaller companies, so no competition

[Transmission Repair]

 

 

17 hours ago, DUFRESNES said:

It looks like I am stuck with QB.  I can't find anything ay cheaper that does what they do.  If someone finds a good program, please let me know.  I understand they bought up a lot of the smaller companies, so no competition

You're not "stuck" with QB.  It is by far the best program around.  Cheaper, too if you compare it to other SMSs. I'm not trying to be a rah-rah QB fan.  It's simply the best in my opinion.  I have run my business strictly on QB since around 2000-2001.  Wait until you design estimates, RO forms, and reports.  It's fun stuff. Or at least it's fun to me.

I can pull up stuff by VIN, plate, or even phone number.  QuickBooks is written in C++  and uses a Sybase back end.  It's not as complicated as it seems, especially for a 68-year-old dumb person like me. 🙂

[DUFRESNES]

Since looking into all other programs, QB is best so far.  It just makes me angry for not having a choice and having to use it no matter what or they shut you off.  There other programs, but they mostly all dump into QB

[Transmission Repair]

There's a reason the other programs "dump" into QuickBooks.

In most shop programs you can "under-report" income.  With QB you can't.  If you fully report income, there's no reason to look for another program than QB.  I'm just sayin'.

[Hands On]

On 3/10/2023 at 8:11 AM, bantar said:

You've heard the expression that you can't teach an old dog 🐶 new tricks, right?

What an amazingly beautiful shop you have. I wish I could put something together like that. Maybe in 5 years after I finish off some more debt, maybe. I am nervous to make another leap like I did when I first started out. Great work.

[bonabros]

I somehow missed this thread, but just recently went through the BS that Intuit is pulling with their Quickbooks 2023 onward. We have been Pro and/or Premier users for 20 years (even before my time). We were doing a similar every 3 years upgrade and paid the $500 for the annual standard payroll. I was getting the program from POSwarehouse.com for $279 instead of $849 from Intuit/Newegg/OfficeMax/etc.

 

Now to switch to the subscription model for Pro with 2 users, it was going to be $749 for the program, a $500 annual payroll fee, plus $8/mo per employee... We have 40 employees wtf... The annual cost used to be $593/yr and now 2023 onward would have been 749 + 500 + (40x8x12=3840) = $5,089

It's disgusting how greedy they got here. We have a few different businesses and unfortunately, QB is our best option. We moved to Enterprise Gold with two users through Fourlane.com (the parent company the POSwarehouse) for $2134/yr. It has enhanced payroll, no employee fee, and can have more than one company file open. The program is still basically the same thing it was since 2008 with a few nice extra features, but certainly not worth an extra $1541 per year. Still painful to think about.

[DUFRESNES]

Since looking into all other programs, QB is best so far.  It just makes me angry for not having a choice and having to use it no matter what or they shut you off.  There other programs, but they mostly all dump into QB.  The other thing is everybody is not paying the same for QB pro. and payroll..  After all these replies and questions, I have several software companies reach out, but so far they all dump into QB.  So no advantage over what I have.

 

[Transmission Repair]

1 hour ago, DUFRESNES said:

Since looking into all other programs, QB is best so far.  It just makes me angry for not having a choice and having to use it no matter what or they shut you off.  There other programs, but they mostly all dump into QB.  The other thing is everybody is not paying the same for QB pro. and payroll..  After all these replies and questions, I have several software companies reach out, but so far they all dump into QB.  So no advantage over what I have.

 

There are numerous reasons they all export to QuickBooks.

[Transmission Repair]

If you think QuickBooks is expensive, check out Intuit's Pro Series at $2,100/yr.  Before my wife retired, she was an accountant and tax preparer with about 60-70 clients.  Intuit's Pro Series is made for accountants, tax preparers, and CPAs.  She thought the high cost of Pro Series was just a cost of doing business.  We need to think the same way about QB.

[billqual]

It's not the price I have issues with. I don't like being held hostage by a program that won't work with out a subscription.  I grew up with programs that you bought and if the company made it better you would upgrade.  If it did what you wanted you were free to keep using it as is. I think the subscription model makes a software company lazy. 

[Transmission Repair]

27 minutes ago, billqual said:

It's not the price I have issues with. I don't like being held hostage by a program that won't work with out a subscription.  I grew up with programs that you bought and if the company made it better you would upgrade.  If it did what you wanted you were free to keep using it as is. I think the subscription model makes a software company lazy. 

Software companies learned early on that the "old school" business model of software sales, like you grew up on, wasn't a sustainable business model.  Many software companies moved their app to "the cloud," where they could better manage a more sustainable business model.

In the dot-com boom and then bust of 2000 were largely driven by software companies that didn't have a sustainable business model.  Try to wrap your head around the idea that the software subscription model is just another cost of doing business, like uniforms, shop rags, rent, and other fixed costs.

Edited April 9, 2023 by Transmission Repair
Added punctuation.

[billqual]

My head is wrapped a different direction than yours.  We bought our own uniforms and quit dealing with shop rags and we own our real estate. I know it’s still all fixed costs but landlords, uniform companies throw me surprises that frustrated me.  Quick books did it this year by tripling my payroll cost and said I could not use my accounting anymore without a subscription.  Subscription based things are fine until they change and it doesn’t work for you anymore.  At least when I own something I can decide when I want or need to change.

[Transmission Repair]

Well, I admire you for owning your own real estate.  That's going to be your retirement.  Conversely, we didn't own our own real estate until 35 years of business.  I wish you well in finding out how to use QB and QB Payroll without a subscription.

Have you purchased a new car that requires a subscription to have all the "extra" bells and whistles work?  Good luck on that one, too.

[Juli Southard]

My bookkeeper HATES QB online!!  ADP charges per payroll, with some other fees, same for Innovative Business Solutions.  Yest. talked to a rep from GUSTO, they have a plan called "Payroll Only", that'll run about $60 per MONTH (three employees for us)! They came up more than once on Google searches as #1 according to research companies.  QB screwed the pooch on this decision.  I also didn't know about this happening from them directly, I found out through the newsletter from my shop software company AutoFluent (TABS).

[billqual]

I ran my first payroll with ONPAY this week.  It took about a week for them to pull my first quarter from QB so my end of year reports and W2's will be correct.  I did several support calls and emails getting everything set up to make a smooth transition.  My first payroll was quick and easy and the numbers integrated into my QB desktop in just a couple key strokes.  Hopefully I am still happy with them by the end of the year. 🤞

[Transmission Repair]

On 4/12/2023 at 11:48 AM, Juli Southard said:

My bookkeeper HATES QB online!!  ADP charges per payroll, with some other fees, same for Innovative Business Solutions.  Yest. talked to a rep from GUSTO, they have a plan called "Payroll Only", that'll run about $60 per MONTH (three employees for us)! They came up more than once on Google searches as #1 according to research companies.  QB screwed the pooch on this decision.  I also didn't know about this happening from them directly, I found out through the newsletter from my shop software company AutoFluent (TABS).

I don't like QuickBooks Online either.  I call QuickBooks Online "QB Lite."   Desktop Pro is the only way to go.