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Customer States Vehicle Vibrating at 100 MPH

CarER

By CarER
in Customer Experience & Reviews

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CarER

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Had a young customer come in this morning and said that his 2013 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution has a vibration in the steering wheel under acceleration. He says, "When you accelerate there's a weird vibration in the steering wheel when you accelerate. It starts when you hit 60 and goes away at 80 then starts at 100 and disappears when it hits 120." He then proceeded to tell me that he replaced the tires, wheels balanced, alignment, etc...

 

I don't even know how to answer someone like that, I politely told him that I would look at the vehicle to see if there's anything obvious. But it's not like I'm going to go drive this thing at 100 to see what he's on about.

 

Well, that was my interesting story of the day.

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alfredauto Experienced

alfredauto

Posted
Posted

We had a guy in a while back who wanted me to test drive his jeep wrangler at high speeds in the rain because he said "it wobbled so bad I thought I was going to roll it" Sorry man I like my head attached to my body we'll check it on the lift. Lol.

Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
Posted

I knew it, I knew it... I knew it. I didn't think I was the only one who ever had somebody wanting me to test drive a car at some outrageous speed.

 

But, I did have one guy who said he kept hitting his head on the roof when he would go over this bump real fast. I told him to wear his seat belt and perhaps slow down, or I could cut a whole in the roof and let his head stick through... choose an option.

  • Like 2
carolinahigear Collaborator

carolinahigear

Posted
Posted

Well....Guilty as charged, Your Honor!!

 

When I was 25 I bought a new Porsche. It was smooth driving all the way up to 150. After the tires got some wear on them a few months later, it started vibrated at about 110 & up. I went to a performance tire shop about 90 miles away and had them balanced, but still had a vibration on the way home. Now this was in 1980, before the internet, before I was in the tire business, so I looked in the back of Car and Driver Magazine for tire ads. I ordered a set of $800 (1980 price) Pirelli's and had them shipped to me. When they came in I drove to Atlanta and had them mounted and balanced. On the way home it drove smoothly up to 150, and I learned then that just because a tire is not worn out that it may not be balanceable to ride smoothly. This lesson has served me well through the years.

 

So nowadays when someone tells me they have a high speed vibration, and they've had them balanced already, I can steer them toward investing in some new rubber!

 

Hi-Gear

stvstbsvc Contributor

stvstbsvc

Posted
Posted

At my shop we always use the FINE setting and balance to .1 oz. instead of the normal .25 and that makes a HUGE difference. If the tires are within .1 oz. static AND dynamic (both sides) they should be smooth to just over 100 mph (I amateur car race in case you were wondering). Other than that I would agree with the above post!

As an aside - my best ever apprentice (dammit, he enlisted in the Coast Guard) was taking classes at the local community college. He was balancing his tires in class with a weight and side-cuts in his hand. The Instructor asked him what he was dong about the same time he looked at the read-out on the balancer. Scott (my apprentice) told him he was balancing tires as he had been taught and the instructor stuck around to see how to set the machine on FINE and how that all worked out! Never been prouder of one of my guys...

 

steve

Spence Enthusiast

Spence

Posted
Posted

At my shop we always use the FINE setting and balance to .1 oz. instead of the normal .25 and that makes a HUGE difference. If the tires are within .1 oz. static AND dynamic (both sides) they should be smooth to just over 100 mph (I amateur car race in case you were wondering). Other than that I would agree with the above post!

 

steve

 

You can balance to .1 oz and still have a bunch of vibration from road force variation. We do that and check the 1st. 2nd and 3rd harmonics on all tire/wheels we do as well as lateral force. I wasn't wondering but I also race. Drag and road racing.

 

Spence

alfredauto Experienced

alfredauto

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm not disagreeing with the value of road force or fine balancing, but we've balanced literally tens of thousands of tires and you can't feel a 1/4oz or 10g imbalance. Even a half ounce on the back is not going to be noticeable on public roads.

 

Bent rims are the #1 cause of vibration. They balance out but they still don't go down the road smooth. #2 is garbage tires, the cheapo district of china makes square tires. (Not all Chinese tires are bad) They balance ok but will flatten out overnight. #3 is CV axles or stuck brake calipers. Get a rotor hot and it will warp, and if you have a stuck caliper it will shake with your foot off the brake. #4 is caked on mud, so obvious to most...

 

Incidentally loose tie rods and ball joints don't cause a vibration, they actually reduce it by absorbing it before it reaches the steering wheel. That's a Sinse-Ya moment when you rebuild a front end and now they feel their bent rim.

 

I took a class on NVH noise/vibration/harshness or something like that a while back, way back actually, and I recommend attending one of its offered. I went when I worked at Acura. You'd be surprised at what causes these "tire balance" issues. That's when ford was hanging large weights on the exhaust pipes.

Edited by alfredauto
CarER Enthusiast

CarER

Posted
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Posted

We looked over everything and we found an axle that was a tiny bit loose. We mentioned that to him and he took it to the dealer.

b1qwkbird Contributor

b1qwkbird

Posted
Posted

The quality of the tires is a huge factor. You can balance and balance a cheap set of tires and they still won't ride as well as a better set of tires. I have worked at numerous Goodyear stores and saw this time after time regardless of the balancer used. As Frank said, just because tires are new does not make them smooth.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

    • Joe Marconi
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      By Joe Marconi in Joe's Blog
         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.

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