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Posted (edited)

Just ran into a serious issue that I want to give you guys the heads up on before it costs you a big headache. The last two Subaru timing belt jobs we did used Dayco kit, the tensioner bearing failed. The first one was after 39 miles, the second one only lasted 19 miles. These were sourced through Advance. Looks like the second one may have cost the engine.

 

I'm waiting to hear back on what happened in the manufacturing process that caused the failure. We have installed tons of these kits with no troubles and have two failures in a row now, something has gone sour.

 

Save yourself the headache, skip the tensioner or install OE on this one. Will post back with more details once I get an answer.

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Edited by Junior
Posted

On this note, does anyone know for certain how many degrees the camshaft can be out before valve to piston contact on an EJ253 engine?

Posted

The SOHC 2.5 rarely bends valves. Its listed as an interference engine but I've put about 7 or 8 timing kits In cars that snapped the belt on the highway and they ran fine.

Posted

Use OE and you wont have these problems. Worldpac has Aisin which is OE aftermarket

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted

Never had a problem with Aisin kits and I've used a ton of them. In fact, I use them so often I keep them in stock

Posted

Used Dayco hydraulic tensioner on a Pilot timing belt a few years ago and it failed within about 20k. Won't use them again. I'll stick with Gates or Aisin.

Posted

Spent a bunch of time with Dayco rep and engineers on the phone yesterday. They claim an NTN tensioner in the box, which is OE, got a new tensioner from Subaru, it is NTN, so is the Dayco one, but they are clearly different parts, different castings and everything. I can only assume NTN changed something in production or they make a different part for aftermarket. The other pulleys that come in the kit are GMB and they are identical to OE. We put OE tensioners on in place of failed ones and all is well, we got lucky with the motor that went out of time, thankfully Subaru's can be out quite a bit before interference.

 

I have mixed feelings about the product now, this is the only timing component failure we've seen. We switched over to Dayco from Gates only about a year ago. I'm not ready to say I won't use Dayco timing kits but I will certainly scrutinize kit components before install.

Posted

I never had good luck with Dayco when I first started my shop. Use mostly Gates for most vehicles. Continental for some specific makes/models or have a few others I use for very specific make/models.

Posted

Now that i think of it, The last dayco timing kit I bought from AZ the tensioner wouldn't expand after the pin was pulled. It was stuck in the retracted position. I used the old one because it worked better. I rarely do timing belts though because of the liability.

Posted

We installed a dayco belt on a VW beetle two weeks ago. Would not stop setting cam codes, regardless of how we adjusted the cam/crank. Turned out the belt was 1/2 tooth too small, which was just enough to throw the timing off and set a CEL. We threw an OEM VW belt on, and all was good.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.
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