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Posted

I used QB 100% and didn't have an SMS because it was way cheaper.  It took a lot of hours to figure out how to design estimates, invoices, reports & more, but after I got a grip on QB, it was all downhill from there.  I ran QB in parallel with our SMS for 2 years just to get the hang of QB.  It took me almost 2 years of learning (part-time.)  The learning curve is atrocious but pays off in the long run.  At least I'm not married to some mega-buck SMS program for ungodly monthly payments that never end.  Screw that.  We were paying (2015) around $700/yr. for annual updates, including payroll files.  That's less than $60/mo.!!!  BTW, QB did all of our payroll, too.  No matter what you pay, just figure it in with the cost of doing business.

Posted

Maybe I can make you feel better.  You can say "At least I'm not paying as much as THAT GUY!"     I use ADP for my payroll (weekly) and last year, my fees were just south of $4000.  🤕

  • Like 1
Posted

I pay weekly about 13 checks x 52 weeks.  Averages out to about $6.09/person/paycheck.    Paying less often is cheaper.  (This is supposedly discounted 45% due to my CPA client discount vs me just calling and signing up.  Who knows?)  The advantage is that my CPA does not mess with payroll taxes and filings, so I pay less there.   They pull the money, escrow the taxes, create and file all of the needed state and federal tax forms.    All I have to do is enter hours / $'s.   Look at the total.  😭 Then press the go button.   😉  

Pretty much, CPA said he wouldn't work with me if I didn't use a payroll company.  He said that I'd screw it up, some way, some how, then it would be VERY expensive for him to fix my mess.   I'm about 99% sure that he was on target with this comment.

  • Like 1
Posted

You might check out https://paymatesoftware.com/

I talked to one of their reps because they integrate with Protractor.   I thought their pricing was fair and their cloud software looked easy enough to learn.  I hope this helps someone!

Gerald

  • Like 1
Posted
14 hours ago, Gerald Martin said:

You might check out https://paymatesoftware.com/

You've heard the expression that you can't teach an old dog 🐶 new tricks, right?   Well, my accountant is older than those dogs.  He doesn't like anything new!   So, I'm using a few programs that I might otherwise not want.    As well, I spoke with the Paar-Melis Accounting team at Vision and their pricing is about 40% higher than my accountant.   He knows this industry, is always accessible and otherwise doing good work, so I have no impetus to change at the moment.   No change means no new accounting toys for me!

 

P.S.  Hi Gerald!!!

  • Like 1
Posted

We pay QB payroll over $700/yr and were using QB Pro 2020 Desktop.  Since they are discontinuing support for 2020, they force you to upgrade and you can no longer purchase the software.  It is all subscription based now which will be more costly than before.  The desktop version is a $550/yr subscription, which you have to call QB sales to even get it.  It is not available online anywhere.  When you call to order, they will try to push you into going to their online platform which I didn't want to do after using the desktop version for over 20 years.  Like others have stated, it's the cost of doing business unfortunately.  

  • Like 1
Posted

I hope Quickbooks figures out they shot their foot off with this change.  If you upgrade past 2020 and don't keep your subscription active you loose access to your data.

It's my understanding I can use Quickbooks 2020 desktop forever but will not have support, security updates or access to online things like payroll. 

I am sticking with 2020 and letting my payroll expire in May.  

It looks like ONPAY.com may be who I am going with, they state they integrate with Quickbooks.

I will be making the change when I close this quarter, fingers crossed it will be a smooth transition.

  • Like 2
Posted

You must be using Quickbooks online.

I have ROWriter and the Back Office has a program on my computer that does the integration.

I don't know if you can find an older version of quickbooks and use your database.

In my research I found people that hadn't needed to update quickbooks for the last 15 years because they were not using quickbooks for their payroll. 

Posted

I am using Accounting Link by The Back Office to integrate ROW to QB.

Fortunately I did not upgrade to QB 2022 or 2023 before this change.

Here is a statement from QB about using 2023 without a subscription, maybe you don't have this version or can move to an older version/

Can I still use QuickBooks Desktop after subscription expires?
 
 
With QuickBooks Desktop 2023 R3 or newer, view-only access remains for 1 year after your subscription ends. In that time, you won't be able to edit your data with your inactive license. But, you can renew your subscription or export your data. To view your data after 1 year, you'll have to renew your subscription.Oct 27, 2022
  • Like 1
Posted

Here is their statement about earlier versions.

What happens if you don't upgrade QuickBooks Desktop?
 
 
What happens if I don't upgrade to QuickBooks 2022? There won't be any immediate issues if you choose to continue using QuickBooks 2022; however, when QuickBooks Desktop for UK customers is discontinued in 2023, Intuit will stop releasing updates – including security updates.
  • Like 1
Posted

I have used QB Desktop for the last 20 years. 

I bought the payroll subscription every year and updated QB Pro every 2-3 years when they said it would not integrate with payroll anymore.

With this latest change I have decided QB will not get another dime from me.

Next week I will be moving to this. They seem to be less expensive.  They state they will take my QB payroll data and merge it to their program and when I run a payroll I can merge it back into my QB Desktop.

 

  • Like 1
Posted

I think intuit bought the competition and now have us over a barrel. Everything I found was cloud based and a recurring subscription and even more expensive than QB.  Some of the SMS programs have accounting built in but changing everything is a pain and still doesn’t solve the problems.

  • Like 1
Posted

I been using QB's only for all my business and they are great. Watch out for the scammers that E-mail with QB's e-mails trying to get money out of you. They E-mails look like they are right from QB's but they are not. Try calling the phone number listed with a cell phone with the caller ID blocked, if they do not pick up the call they are the scammers.  

  • Like 2
Posted

 

 

17 hours ago, DUFRESNES said:

It looks like I am stuck with QB.  I can't find anything ay cheaper that does what they do.  If someone finds a good program, please let me know.  I understand they bought up a lot of the smaller companies, so no competition

You're not "stuck" with QB.  It is by far the best program around.  Cheaper, too if you compare it to other SMSs. I'm not trying to be a rah-rah QB fan.  It's simply the best in my opinion.  I have run my business strictly on QB since around 2000-2001.  Wait until you design estimates, RO forms, and reports.  It's fun stuff. Or at least it's fun to me.

I can pull up stuff by VIN, plate, or even phone number.  QuickBooks is written in C++  and uses a Sybase back end.  It's not as complicated as it seems, especially for a 68-year-old dumb person like me. 🙂

Stan's Mustang.jpg

  • Like 1
Posted

There's a reason the other programs "dump" into QuickBooks.

In most shop programs you can "under-report" income.  With QB you can't.  If you fully report income, there's no reason to look for another program than QB.  I'm just sayin'.

Posted
On 3/10/2023 at 8:11 AM, bantar said:

You've heard the expression that you can't teach an old dog 🐶 new tricks, right?

What an amazingly beautiful shop you have. I wish I could put something together like that. Maybe in 5 years after I finish off some more debt, maybe. I am nervous to make another leap like I did when I first started out. Great work.

Posted

I somehow missed this thread, but just recently went through the BS that Intuit is pulling with their Quickbooks 2023 onward. We have been Pro and/or Premier users for 20 years (even before my time). We were doing a similar every 3 years upgrade and paid the $500 for the annual standard payroll. I was getting the program from POSwarehouse.com for $279 instead of $849 from Intuit/Newegg/OfficeMax/etc.

 

Now to switch to the subscription model for Pro with 2 users, it was going to be $749 for the program, a $500 annual payroll fee, plus $8/mo per employee... We have 40 employees wtf... The annual cost used to be $593/yr and now 2023 onward would have been 749 + 500 + (40x8x12=3840) = $5,089

It's disgusting how greedy they got here. We have a few different businesses and unfortunately, QB is our best option. We moved to Enterprise Gold with two users through Fourlane.com (the parent company the POSwarehouse) for $2134/yr. It has enhanced payroll, no employee fee, and can have more than one company file open. The program is still basically the same thing it was since 2008 with a few nice extra features, but certainly not worth an extra $1541 per year. Still painful to think about.

  • Like 1
Posted
1 hour ago, DUFRESNES said:

Since looking into all other programs, QB is best so far.  It just makes me angry for not having a choice and having to use it no matter what or they shut you off.  There other programs, but they mostly all dump into QB.  The other thing is everybody is not paying the same for QB pro. and payroll..  After all these replies and questions, I have several software companies reach out, but so far they all dump into QB.  So no advantage over what I have.

 

There are numerous reasons they all export to QuickBooks.

Posted

If you think QuickBooks is expensive, check out Intuit's Pro Series at $2,100/yr.  Before my wife retired, she was an accountant and tax preparer with about 60-70 clients.  Intuit's Pro Series is made for accountants, tax preparers, and CPAs.  She thought the high cost of Pro Series was just a cost of doing business.  We need to think the same way about QB.

  • Like 1
Posted

It's not the price I have issues with. I don't like being held hostage by a program that won't work with out a subscription.  I grew up with programs that you bought and if the company made it better you would upgrade.  If it did what you wanted you were free to keep using it as is. I think the subscription model makes a software company lazy. 

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, billqual said:

It's not the price I have issues with. I don't like being held hostage by a program that won't work with out a subscription.  I grew up with programs that you bought and if the company made it better you would upgrade.  If it did what you wanted you were free to keep using it as is. I think the subscription model makes a software company lazy. 

Software companies learned early on that the "old school" business model of software sales, like you grew up on, wasn't a sustainable business model.  Many software companies moved their app to "the cloud," where they could better manage a more sustainable business model.

In the dot-com boom and then bust of 2000 were largely driven by software companies that didn't have a sustainable business model.  Try to wrap your head around the idea that the software subscription model is just another cost of doing business, like uniforms, shop rags, rent, and other fixed costs.

Edited by Transmission Repair
Added punctuation.
  • Like 1
Posted

My head is wrapped a different direction than yours.  We bought our own uniforms and quit dealing with shop rags and we own our real estate. I know it’s still all fixed costs but landlords, uniform companies throw me surprises that frustrated me.  Quick books did it this year by tripling my payroll cost and said I could not use my accounting anymore without a subscription.  Subscription based things are fine until they change and it doesn’t work for you anymore.  At least when I own something I can decide when I want or need to change.

  • Like 1
Posted

Well, I admire you for owning your own real estate.  That's going to be your retirement.  Conversely, we didn't own our own real estate until 35 years of business.  I wish you well in finding out how to use QB and QB Payroll without a subscription.

Have you purchased a new car that requires a subscription to have all the "extra" bells and whistles work?  Good luck on that one, too.

  • Like 1
Posted

My bookkeeper HATES QB online!!  ADP charges per payroll, with some other fees, same for Innovative Business Solutions.  Yest. talked to a rep from GUSTO, they have a plan called "Payroll Only", that'll run about $60 per MONTH (three employees for us)! They came up more than once on Google searches as #1 according to research companies.  QB screwed the pooch on this decision.  I also didn't know about this happening from them directly, I found out through the newsletter from my shop software company AutoFluent (TABS).

  • Like 1
Posted

I ran my first payroll with ONPAY this week.  It took about a week for them to pull my first quarter from QB so my end of year reports and W2's will be correct.  I did several support calls and emails getting everything set up to make a smooth transition.  My first payroll was quick and easy and the numbers integrated into my QB desktop in just a couple key strokes.  Hopefully I am still happy with them by the end of the year. 🤞

  • Like 1
Posted
On 4/12/2023 at 11:48 AM, Juli Southard said:

My bookkeeper HATES QB online!!  ADP charges per payroll, with some other fees, same for Innovative Business Solutions.  Yest. talked to a rep from GUSTO, they have a plan called "Payroll Only", that'll run about $60 per MONTH (three employees for us)! They came up more than once on Google searches as #1 according to research companies.  QB screwed the pooch on this decision.  I also didn't know about this happening from them directly, I found out through the newsletter from my shop software company AutoFluent (TABS).

I don't like QuickBooks Online either.  I call QuickBooks Online "QB Lite."   Desktop Pro is the only way to go.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.
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