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ASE: Still Not Recognized By The Public?

Joe Marconi
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IntegrityAutoCare Contributor

IntegrityAutoCare

Posted
Posted

I am ASE certified. As stated in the original post I think most common customers know just enough about ASE certification to know that it is supposedly a "good thing", but in all reality I have known many mechanics who were ASE certified that didn't know their head from the tail end of a crankshaft.

 

For that reason I am really not in favor of the certification. Seems like a waste of money to me. I certified in several categories when I worked at a shop before (mainly because my boss paid for it) and I really don't think I was a better mechanic for it. Now that I own my own business I went ahead and recertified in ONE category just so that when people ask me "Are you ASE certified?" I can say "yes." That's all they ever ask...that's all they know enough to care about. No one has ever asked me before letting me have their car for a brake job "Are you ASE certified in Brake Repair?".

 

I would be more in favor of hands on trade schools with actual training on what it's like to work on vehicles from diagnosing a DOA problem the minute it rolls in the bay to installing or repairing the part at fault.

 

If we had schools like that which produced QUALITY techs then we would have a resource from which to select QUALITY employees who would have already been working on cars for a couple years and would know what was going on instead of these kids coming up who aced every ASE test (by studying a book) but have very little actual experience in the field. We would be able to hire employees that could generate revenue from the first week they are hired instead of having to be trained for a couple of years in ACTUAL auto repair before they really are able to sustain themselves.

5 Star Auto Spa Community Regular

5 Star Auto Spa

Posted
Posted

I think all of you have valid points. I do wish ASE as an organization did more to advertise the benefits of being certified to the general public so when they go to look for a mechanic, they have more than just a hazy idea of why it is good to be ASE certified. I also agree that I have met some mechanics that were ASE certified in some manner or another who were just terrible mechanics. But I also believe that I do not think the ASE certifications made those mechanics bad technicians, they had a host of other issues that were more specific to those individuals. I have never met a technician where I have thought they had too many ASE certifications or I thought it hampered them in any way. I hear from a lot of technicians that I interview that do not have ASE certifications that always say how they are worthless or so easy to obtain. I lean on the side of if they were so easy to obtain, why not get them?

phynny Community Regular

phynny

Posted
Posted

I believe that ASE doesn't get much merrit because it doesn't deserve much in my opinion. They are simple tests that anyone can take and pass and really means nothing but that you can pass a test. My customers feel much more secure in the fact that I have engineering degrees than they do about some ASE certs. I've noticed that the higher end cars people just want to know if you are a "certified BMW" tech and know nothing about having ASE certs. I can't even think of a way to make customers feel secure because our techs are ASE certified and I've tried.

 

So now I just use ASE certs internally for raises and to insure my techs have a clue.

  • 2 weeks later...
IntegrityAutoCare Contributor

IntegrityAutoCare

Posted
Posted (edited)

I lean on the side of if they were so easy to obtain, why not get them?

uh....

 

Because they cost a lot of money and don't really provide much of anything in the way of benefits to the certification holder.

 

Is that too obvious an answer?

 

I agree that ASE certifications don't HURT anyone, and they are perhaps valuable internally in the sense that it at least assures the certification holder has SOME CLUE about the basic principles of vehicle systems and repairs. If you are a big shop who just happens to have hundreds and hundreds of dollars lying around to buy a bunch of ASE certifications they by all means knock yourself out.

 

For myself personally, however, I am in an early phase of my business where I am trying to figure out ways to scrimp money so that I can afford the proper EQUIPMENT that is going to make it possible for me to do my job and serve the customer. Dropping money on extra ASE certifications is very close to the BOTTOM of my priority list.

Edited by IntegrityAutoCare
5 Star Auto Spa Community Regular

5 Star Auto Spa

Posted
Posted

Thanks Integrity Auto Care for the compliment! We're actually a car wash with an auto repair facility on site....hence our name. I agree with a lot of what everyone has stated on this thread. I do believe ASE certifications are meaningful though. Its very much like a college degree. Because you have a college degree does not mean you are smarter than someone without one but it does mean that you are able to put your mind to something, study for it, and get it done. From our past experiences of dealing with technicians, the techs that do not have ASE certifications don't have it because they are unable to or not willing to obtain it. Not because of the money or because the general public is not as familiar with it, but because they are not willing to put in the time to study and take the test.

IntegrityAutoCare Contributor

IntegrityAutoCare

Posted
Posted

I think what would be more effective then ASE certifications is that if some technical school or group of shops would offer an auto technican apprentice program similar to what the trades do. My son is a union trained plumber. He spent 5+ years in an apprentice program which consisted of working five days a week plus attended classes two nights each week. He started at a pay scale of approximately $7.50 which was about 1/3 of what a journeyman plumber was paid and then received a pay increase each year. He actually took a pay cut to become an apprentice. After five years of training he took the state tests both hands on and written and passed and became a journeyman.

My plan is to eventually turn my business into just such a trade school. One step at a time, though....

  • 2 weeks later...
Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
Posted

I've read all the comments on this subject, and... I would have to agree with all of them.

 

Now, let's step way out there on the limb... all by ourselves and look at it from the customers stand point.

 

A certified ASE technician doesn't mean didly to them. Right?

 

Why?

 

Here's my take on it.

 

IF a customer looks or glances at the Blue seal and figures it means they are dealing with a "good thing" (as was described in a couple of the comments) then ... (in their mind) chances are it's going to be more expensive to get the car worked on at this shop rather than a shop that's not certified. Probably, maybe... could be a regular customer who doesn't care if you're certified or not. However, the real issue is how do you make the general public aware of the need for certifications and the need for such things as a Blue Seal shop.

 

Ok, here we are out on that limb I mentioned. Let's imagine that only certified shops and techs can purchase certain parts. Such as anything that requires programming. This way the parts people avoid the ever popular "This part you sold me is defective" from the unknown consumer who is trying to fix his car. Now, in order to get the work done they have to find a Blue Seal shop that can not only purchase the "correct" parts but also do the programming. Let's face it, if you're in the home heating and air conditioning business you've got a clinch on a new home HVAC unit. I can't go down to Lowes and purchase a unit, in fact I probably can't hook it up without a licensed installer. But I can run down to the dealership parts department and buy a new instrument cluster even though (speaking as a consumer) I don't have a clue how to program it.

 

Ok, I'll get to the point. If ASE certification wants to be something that is NEEDED. Then you have to make is somehow worthy for the mechanic to take the tests and GET certified. You want to bring in new techs into the business? How about bring up the point about certifications and how this trade is a lifetime trade such as any other blue collar trade. If they knew going into an apprenticeship that you'll be in a class all your own because you've been taught to perform a repair by experts in the field and YOU will be as respected as much as any another other tradesman.

 

Pissin' off a few parts venders, and quite a few old timers that don't believe they need some stinkin' badge to fix a car is going to happen. In the long run the time of accepting any changes in the way we do our business will be short lived. The future of the trade is where it's at, not what we've done in the past... none of it worked anyway.

 

Make the certifications mean something, not just a piece of paper on a wall.

  • Like 2
  • 2 weeks later...
Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
Posted

Let's add some more fuel to the fire.

Look at how cars have progressed in the last 50 years. What is the one common factor that has changed more dramatically than anything else in cars. I'm not talking about technology wise now... Think of what has the government mandated to be done to cars. Well for one is fuel mileage. . . . . . BUT... the real issue.... occupant safety issues.

First it was to lower the smog levels by controlling emissions. That started primarily first. Then it was seat belts, then air bags, ABS, shoulder belts, TPMS, and now auto stop systems, GPS controls for accident avoidance, so on and so on.

Everything about a car that was put into practical use had something to do with occupant safety.

 

Now, the problem as I see it. If some Yahoo buys a bunch of 134 at a store and blows a can or two into the atmosphere isn't he endangering everyone else? Or, a guy who puts on his own brake pads (Cheap parts or good parts... doesn't make a difference...because those products have to meet a government minimum standard... so cheap parts don't matter.) and after installing the brake pads he puts one pad on backwards and locks his wheel up. Isn't that a safety issue as well?

 

SO... I'll get to the point. It seems to me that the real way of getting ASE certifications, shop licensing, programmed or any type of part that can be deemed a safety issue to the general public put on a "only if you're certified" type of sale... the only way I see this happening is IF it comes down to a safety issue for the unknowing, untrained, and dollar saving consumers that the legislation can create some sort of law for it all.

Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
Posted

Sad but true. I guess you could say "Some guy" has a lot of friends... "Them guys, Those guys, and That guy" LOL None of which could even pass a simple test to tell if they are qualified enough to call themselves a "mechanic" LOL

 

I needed a good laugh Jeff... ya done did it. :)

  • 1 year later...
UsedTireShop Collaborator

UsedTireShop

Posted
Posted

This always irritated me. My daughter needs a license to cut hair and my brother need a license to be a plumber, but anyone can slap pads on a grooved rotor and then hurl the 3,000 pound car down the highway at 75 MPH. Never made sense to me. I can not believe that feds or the states have not picked up on this. Especially for the fact that their can be huge dollars in it for them.

 

Do I want more government in my life? NO I do not. But we need someone to make this industry more of a safe professional industry.

 

In 2012 there were 33,561 deaths from car crashes. I can not find that stats but I think it is far to say that no one died from a hair cut or leaky sink.

  • Like 3
ncautoshop Proficient

ncautoshop

Posted
Posted

My objection to ase is time. The nearest testing facility is 2 hours away. As a small shop that's downtime we cannot currently afford!

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

 

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

    • Joe Marconi
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      By Joe Marconi in Joe's Blog
         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.

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