shortage of good techs

[skm]

I have been a Tech for a very long time, I have noticed that techs of a good caliber are getting less and less, Who or what do we really have to blame for this? Schooling costs, Laziness, Lack of drive? I think all of this has a part in it, but about a year and a half ago I was looking to buy an new Scanner. I talked with and sampled all the top tool dealers products. What I noticed about most of them especially Snap on is that is seems everything links to a website that will help you with your diagnostics, so what are we really paying for the diagnostic equipment or the "support" that comes with it? I think these things are doing our techs a disservice you can not fix the car over the phone or through a website. You need hands on and to know what you are looking at, if you can do that you can fix cars at a much faster pace.

 

Needless to say I went with a much cheaper Scanner that does just great, all I need is a Data Stream, some bidirectional communications, and the ability to write some things to the computer . So why pay all the money ??

[ATLAuto]

Needless to say I went with a much cheaper Scanner that does just great, all I need is a Data Stream, some bidirectional communications, and the ability to write some things to the computer . So why pay all the money ??

 

This one is a pretty easy answer for me. We use Identifix at our shop, which is (more or less) what the Snap-On scanners have built into them. A lot of older guys laugh at Identifix; however, for me it is all a statistics game, and Identifix helps you win that game. I'll give you an example:

 

Let's say you have a normal car with a lean code come in. You could start old school with it ... smoke the engine, spray some propane around the intake boots, scope the MAF and/or O2 sensors, check the PCV for cracks, etc etc...

 

Or...you could go on Identifix, see that 105 techs replaced the PCV to solve this issue. Statistically, it is probably the PCV causing the issue on this particular vehicle. I'll start my diagnosis there, check out the PCV, and move on.

 

Both methods work ... I just like getting to the issue quicker.

[skm]

 

This one is a pretty easy answer for me. We use Identifix at our shop, which is (more or less) what the Snap-On scanners have built into them. A lot of older guys laugh at Identifix; however, for me it is all a statistics game, and Identifix helps you win that game. I'll give you an example:

 

Let's say you have a normal car with a lean code come in. You could start old school with it ... smoke the engine, spray some propane around the intake boots, scope the MAF and/or O2 sensors, check the PCV for cracks, etc etc...

 

Or...you could go on Identifix, see that 105 techs replaced the PCV to solve this issue. Statistically, it is probably the PCV causing the issue on this particular vehicle. I'll start my diagnosis there, check out the PCV, and move on.

 

Both methods work ... I just like getting to the issue quicker.

I see, but as you pull the code you can easily check the operation of the maf and the o2 , now the rest can easily be checked with a smoker made at a good size vacuum port at the intake and blocking the air induction tube at the air filter.. So that was part of my initial question why are good techs becoming scarce, one of my thoughts were all these identifix type things out there, yes they may point you to the most likely cause but what have you learnt? nothing that is the same as the dyi guy googling and youtubing in my opinion. Like I was saying now a days no body wants to learn how things work lets just look up and see what people have found. It is hard to find techs out there that understand the computer systems, know how they work , know what sensors are used for how they work how the computer process these readings (basically just accessing different charts) and then reacting with actuators. Like I said the real tech now a days is a dying breed sad

[lmcca]

I see, but as you pull the code you can easily check the operation of the maf and the o2 , now the rest can easily be checked with a smoker made at a good size vacuum port at the intake and blocking the air induction tube at the air filter.. So that was part of my initial question why are good techs becoming scarce, one of my thoughts were all these identifix type things out there, yes they may point you to the most likely cause but what have you learnt? nothing that is the same as the dyi guy googling and youtubing in my opinion. Like I was saying now a days no body wants to learn how things work lets just look up and see what people have found. It is hard to find techs out there that understand the computer systems, know how they work , know what sensors are used for how they work how the computer process these readings (basically just accessing different charts) and then reacting with actuators. Like I said the real tech now a days is a dying breed sad

 

why would you want to do it that way? i disagree with most of what you said. I have seen great techs use identifix etc to form their diagnosis, your stupid not to if you have it available. A good tech knows that information is power and if you can shave of 15 minutes, 20 minutes or whatever off of your diag time then your are an even better tech. Why should a tech waste the time to set up a smoke machine when a production vehicle comes in with a engineering problem. Thats the beauty of production cars, most of them have the same problem.

 

Case in point, the best tech i have ever had was an identifix king. He would pull the code, identifix the problem, verify that problem look for maintenance and move on to the next one all the while our "seasoned" old school guys are wasting their time piddling around with the other stuff. He always ran more hours, INCREASED HIS ACCURACY and increased his productivity way more than the others.

 

Why wouldnt you want EVERY bit of information to help you give a better, more accurate diagnosis is beyond me.

 

Enjoy.

[skm]

Case in point, the best tech i have ever had was an identifix king.. I guess you didn't really understand my question... but anyway I feel sad that your best tech is a indentifix king. What happens if you internet is down for what ever reason for some time, days or even weeks. How are you going to get work done? If they lean on identifix, if it is not there then what? You seem to think it takes a lot of time to do these tests, well it really does not if you know what you are doing. My point exactly why are good techs hard to find. I guess you just answered that. Nobody cares to learn to be a real tech and maybe you are right why should they ? Hey just get on the computer and look for an answer , now if your doctor was to diagnose you the same way I think you would have a problem with it . What if your doctor asked you some questions then got on WEB MD and prescribed you medicine that most doctors found to help the problem? You would be comfortable with that? After all people are production things as well. We all have the same parts and function the same way hmmmmm..

Edited September 1, 2015 by skm

[lmcca]

its not that we found this guy in the gutter and said, here, log into this website, your a tech now. You should climb up out of the dark ages, i understand you dont like technology and it has made you feel cheated some how but it is a tool same as your wrench, not using it because its a computer that has prior technician experience and knowledge collected on it is just dumb to me.

 

But hey, to each his own, i prefer a collaboration of things for a diagnosis, you want only whats in your head, my monies on the guy that can verify his work.

 

Seeya.

[skm]

its not that we found this guy in the gutter and said, here, log into this website, your a tech now. You should climb up out of the dark ages, i understand you dont like technology and it has made you feel cheated some how but it is a tool same as your wrench, not using it because its a computer that has prior technician experience and knowledge collected on it is just dumb to me.

 

But hey, to each his own, i prefer a collaboration of things for a diagnosis, you want only whats in your head, my monies on the guy that can verify his work.

 

Seeya.

Wow sorry if I hit a nerve.. and its not about technology, and I don't live in the dark ages I just believe in knowing what you are working on sir. I did not personally attack you, so please don't attack me, maybe the truth hurts? Maybe if your computers go down you may have a problem? I don't know and am sorry you feel you need to pay lots of money for subscriptions to things so you can fix your cars when your techs should have that knowledge in their heads. My point to of the whole thread " shortage of good techs". relax, take a deep breath, I'm not going to effect your life or your business

 

see ya

[lmcca]

you didnt hit a nerve, im not upset, i dont care what you do, i was merely pointing out your level of thinking is flawed. i hope you change that type of thought process when you open a shop or you just might be here asking why your failing

 

have a good one!

[skm]

you didnt hit a nerve, im not upset, i dont care what you do, i was merely pointing out your level of thinking is flawed. i hope you change that type of thought process when you open a shop or you just might be here asking why your failing

 

have a good one!

Thanks, my way of thinking wasn't about running a business it was simply about well trained techs, as I am sure you know from running a business that there are a lot of hacks and parts changers out there. And good techs being hard to find. That is all. I am sure I will do fine if and when I decide to open a shop. Thanks for your input

 

have a good one as well !!

 

p.s I googled your shop saw a picture of it very very nice I defiantly give your props !

Edited September 1, 2015 by skm

[alfredauto]

If the internet is down and we don't have access to identifix and mitchell, basically trying to diagnose a car without a service manual, we get the internet fixed. I still have about 50 old school 12" thick service manuals, the last time i opened one was 1994. I am glad those days are gone. I've worked at shops where the boss was too cheap to provide any service manuals or information. I quit like every other good tech. No information = no accurate repairing that's just the way it is. I have a manual for my 1963 tractor. Learn by doing is a recipe for mistakes.

 

I understand your thoughts on kids that can't figure it out, but they are actually smarter than us old guys that keep getting a bigger hammer. 😇

[lmcca]

Thanks, my way of thinking wasn't about running a business it was simply about well trained techs, as I am sure you know from running a business that there are a lot of hacks and parts changers out there. And good techs being hard to find. That is all. I am sure I will do fine if and when I decide to open a shop. Thanks for your input

 

have a good one as well !!

 

p.s I googled your shop saw a picture of it very very nice I defiantly give your props !

i hear ya, and yes, there are hacks out there and we dont like them and agree good techs are getting harder to find. Im actually not the owner, im the general manager but thanks!

[skm]

If the internet is down and we don't have access to identifix and mitchell, basically trying to diagnose a car without a service manual, we get the internet fixed. I still have about 50 old school 12" thick service manuals, the last time i opened one was 1994. I am glad those days are gone. I've worked at shops where the boss was too cheap to provide any service manuals or information. I quit like every other good tech. No information = no accurate repairing that's just the way it is. I have a manual for my 1963 tractor. Learn by doing is a recipe for mistakes.

 

I understand your thoughts on kids that can't figure it out, but they are actually smarter than us old guys that keep getting a bigger hammer.

I hated those old manuals, also had the labor guide in one of those huge books. Agreed we need information. I use shop key pro for wiring diagrams, tsb's, and specs and maybe code setting protocol having information is not what my thread was suppose to be about, you can have all the info in the world and still not be able to fix a sandwich let alone a car. The knowledge needs to be there.

 

have a great day guys

[phynny]

skm it's an easy question to answer, shops do not pay near well enough and now we have a shortage. I like identifix, mitchell and the other programs to help easily find known issues but IMHO this can hurt shops in 2 ways. First being that the techs get rusty as they are dependent upon others doing the work for them and the second being the owners don't want to pay more because the computer is doing all the work.

 

I'd rather have my guys spend the extra 15 minutes and diag it for themselves to keep them sharp and have others copy their work on identifix. Remember guys, I said I like the programs I just don't like guys getting dependent on them.

[skm]

skm it's an easy question to answer, shops do not pay near well enough and now we have a shortage. I like identifix, mitchell and the other programs to help easily find known issues but IMHO this can hurt shops in 2 ways. First being that the techs get rusty as they are dependent upon others doing the work for them and the second being the owners don't want to pay more because the computer is doing all the work.

 

I'd rather have my guys spend the extra 15 minutes and diag it for themselves to keep them sharp and have others copy their work on identifix. Remember guys, I said I like the programs I just don't like guys getting dependent on them.

pretty much my thoughts exactly.