Wheelingauto

4 minutes ago, Jeffrey said:

I feel your pain. It took me years of searching prices before I realized its not about price! I have very dedicated customers and most use Amsoil. We believe in the product and educate our customers on the benefits. If you don't keep your customers informed and offer them fair and superior service you will always be competing with the shop down the road. Customers are looking for service they can trust. If you are selling by price you will always be looking for cheaper items and lets face it, We cannot compete with internet prices. We do not install customer supplied parts, We stopped because so many cheap online parts were costing us more time to install and when the part fails the customer blames the shop. We install using quarts or gallons. Oh by he way I am the shop owner, technician, service writer, bookkeeper, etc so we are a small shop as well.

Jeffrey, I understand what you are saying. What you also have to recognize as a shop owner buying right allows proper pricing and proper profitability. While service is what we are all about and what differentiates us COGS is something that NEEDS to be monitored closely and as the owner you need to make sure you are not overpaying which will cause you to unnecessarily price too high.

If you wish to use Amsoil and tout it's benefits thats fine. If you can buy it for $50 a gallon from Napa or order it shipped in for $30 a gallon would you care? I hope so!

i did not see this as a cheap discussion as much as a COGS discussion. Whether you offer Amsoil or Full Synthetic oil really does not matter. While you have a one man operation and can educate one person at a time others have 10 or 20 man operations that cater to a much larger niche than you do and therefore may not be able to educate on the level you do and/or do not have the faith in the same products you do yet still wish to offer quality products.

Unfortunately I cannot identify with your issues.  We are a much larger facility and I do not have the time to shop for specials at various stores.

I recently fell out of contract with Valvoline and after reading posts by Anderson Auto and his strategy of inexpensive synthetic oil changes to drive car count, we decided to shop around to see if we could effectively bring down the price of a full synthetic oil change to increase value to our customers and then make the move to "5k service intervals" and then building a service package around them (LOF, rotate, inspection). There is a company out of Missouri called Keltners distribution who sells Dexos approved full synthetic oils for less than $2 per quart by the case. I used to order that in various weights by the pallet. I think minimum order is like $600. They sell a lot of other things that might make it doable for a smaller shop and you can mix and match.

Recently we found a local supplier where we can buy dexos approved in bulk at $7.10 per gallon....so we no longer use or offer conventional oils. While we dont advertise cheap full synthetic oil changes we are exclusively using synthetics for only a couple of dollars more than we used to charge for conventional.

11 hours ago, Alex said:

@Wheelingauto are you getting contacted on this site by people trying to sell you something? If you are getting solicited, just drop me a line. 

 

Alex, no one is directly soliciting me. Most of the current activity and involvement I see are comments by those who seek clients from this site and what they comment on/about are solicitous (is that a word???) in nature. That rubs me wrong....maybe its just me.
is

6 hours ago, xrac said:

You took the words out of my mouth.  For several years I participated in two business forums unrelated to the automotive business.  One was tightly controlled and content was always top notch and well worth investing the time.  However, because of tight control it never grew really large.  The second forum was wide open and attracted more participants.  At first it was very good with lots of good info and people who were willing to help you.  However, overtime it attracted a lot of newbies, wannabes, and people promoting their ourselves and services.  It has degenerated into a lot of cat fights, people posting who don't know much, and a lot of garbage promotions.  Many of the knowledgeable original participants who were helpful have disappeared. 

When I see ASO it reminds me of the first forum and the Facebook forum reminds me of the later.  I think what will happen with the Facebook page is too many newbies, wannabes, advertisers, and people self promoting.  It won't be that there is not good useful stuff there but that you have to spend too much time finding it and wading through too much other garbage.  May be I am prejudging and wrong but that is my gut feeling at this point in time.

Problem is this group has all but dried up and gone away except for the industry "gurus" who are...um....selling their wares. I hardly come here anymore and when I do it's just them fighting for any scraps that might be here.

On 10/17/2017 at 8:56 PM, ScottSpec said:

Could we extend on this topic adding what does an Automotive Repair Shop really need on their site. I have built a lot of websites over the years. I still struggle with what is really needed. There are some nice looking sites here but some of them are quite busy and overwhelming. What do customers want to see? There is a shop across the parking lot from us. They have a one page website that is at least 10 years old. They don't have any social media accounts but if you search for auto repair in our city, they used to come up on the first page almost every time. I just checked and they are currently on the top of the second page. I did a backlink check and there are only 4 to their site. 

I have too many websites, I have considered very basic site with some special offers on the home page to entice people.

What are your thoughts?

Scott

 

I have one of those complicated sites. www.wheelingautocenter.com

I think the site has to have your contact info readily available, IT has to list what you do, It has to have a link to reviews, and it has to most importantly build an impression to the consumer. An impression either this is EXACTLY what I am looking for or just the opposite.

I think real pictures are an important part of that. All you primary points of action need to be on the first page (appointment by web, phone call, contact info) and it HAS to be mobile friendly.

I also think you have to have other pages for those who have questions or who like to do more research. The number of pages is not important but I think you need to have more than they want to go thru. Most will only look at one or two before making a decision but having more to choose from might create a more professional impression.

Almost everyone uses the internet in some way to chose, fund or do business. Just sit and think about how you use your phone, computer and pad devices to research, locate, get directions or just find a phone number. To those that think it isnt needed either you are running a (really)small business or nearing retirement age.... IMHO

Oh, one last thing. Most update their technology quite often(phones, ipads etc) dont you think there are valid reasons to keeping your website updated??? Spiders, load times?

Complimentary alignment inspection with the purchase of tires...

Has so much more value.....

Free= Bad word

Check=means its free

Look= means its free

JMHO

2 hours ago, AndersonAuto said:

Of course, if you did loaner cars and  Saturdays....

HA HA...I did.....didn't work for me.

I have read about the type of schedule you run Anderson and other than you, I dont know of anyone who made it work. You have to dramatically increase car count when going from standard 5 day work week to 6 day rotating schedule and as you described, there are other challenges.

My EX service manager decided to open full day Saturdays several years back in an effort to grow. Immediately I got notice from one tech who did not want to work Saturdays and that was the catalyst to him changing industries and careers. We added several lube techs and rotated our master/senior techs to one Saturday per month. At the time we had 3 advisors so one would work each Saturday with one senior tech, 2 apprentices and a car washer. It wasn't so bad but we had a lot of turnover with the car washers and apprentices. Also had a drop off of standards so in an effort to keep standards up, I found it much easier to manage 5 day a week all full time people and lose Saturdays. The final decision was when my service manager became my ex SM and I had to cover for his Saturdays...did it for a little while but it got old quick. So we closed again on Saturdays and became a 5 day a week shop again (added more loaners). We continue to grow although I suspect Anderson will outgrow us soon. I am becoming fat and happy.....

3 hours ago, 3PuttFever said:

I really come on these forums to learn more from shop owners like myself. But what I'm seeing more and more of is consultants looking for gigs.

It's funny. I see that too and I font it quite annoying when some consultant adds their 2 cents and then relentlessly pushes their services. Most consultants were not terribly successful and probably why they are fishing for consulting gigs. Much easier to tell you how to do it than doing it themselves. Again, most of them come out and tell you they are some sort of car count expert. The problem is THEY dont have to deal with the people they showed you how to attract. Nobody in their right mind wants to expend their energy and time trying to cater to someone who does not value it. Then the gurus say stuff lie just inspect it and sell....right to the bank!! HA! Cheap MF's are always going to be cheap MF's. You might get lucky and upsell something once in a while but you are not creating relationships.

I am not a consultant, I AM a shop owner who opens and closes the door everyday and like others here, I believe myself to be quite successful but that success came from quite a bit of work and 30 years of effort. There is no one place or one post that will solve your car count issue. There is nothing that will fix it overnight. A consistent effort in both conquest and retention marketing is required. Consistency and continuous improved service is required. If you settle for good enough it will never be good enough. You also need to decide what you are and to who you are that to. You cant be a discounter and a high level service company. You cant put out coupons for everything and then say your the best.

My advice. Poll the top 20% of your customers and figure out what draws them to you. Then market to conquest with those attributes. If they love 12.95 oil changes..I see a lot of pain. But I bet they dont come to you for that.

advice 2: I have found a 20 group to be the best coaching out there. I would suggest looking into one.

More information would be helpful. How is your pricing the problem? When trying to get into fleets, is your first question to the person in charge is are you unhappy with your current vendor? What would you do differently if you had the chance, what is the biggest pain you have when dealing with fleet maintenance? All these are discussion points to which you should have compelling answers/discussion points. If the only thing that is discussed is price and the value of doing things correctly is not part of that equation I would say move on to another fleet.

46 minutes ago, 3PuttFever said:

Exactly how do you obtain a $425 average with 500 cars? I'm into this business less than five years and would like to know how you know how to do  this? Aside from listening to the customers, selling the dirty filters, overdue or due maintenance, pipelining upcoming needs like soon to expire brakes/tires, what else should we be doing? We inspect nearly every car and admittedly, we do have some lapses on finding things, but we do a good job for the most part. 

In addition to Stevens points I would add....

Inspect every vehicle, the more consistent you can be the better. Identify all needs. Estimate all needs, present all needs to customer in order of importance, along with estimates to correct. Watch average ticket grow.

To improve results add in Stevens points:

Dont market to bottom feeders. Market to value.

Treat people well, serve them and consistently deliver.

Hire the best you can find and help them be as efficient as possible.

Also, get sales training. While you need (IMO) to be genuine knowing the tools and how to use them will assist in closing some of the more difficult sales and close more of the easy ones.

1 hour ago, mspecperformance said:

you'll have a really big break in morale. Plan B is to start recruiting.

I am assuming you are making a change in the payroll because numbers are off. I agree with MSPec that you probably need to go into this with a good plan B.

You state your techs are fat and happy. If that's the case all they will feel when you change the plan is that  you are somehow ripping them off. It will not motivate them to do better. IF...they are worth saving....educate them.

Pull out whatever you feel you need to to show them the current state of affairs. Where their productivity is, efficiency, gross profit numbers. Show them where is should be and can be. Educate them on what that means to THEM, not only with pay but how working conditions will improve if the business is making what it should. Educate them on what it means to the business (health). They could really be fat and happy!

Then set expectations of how things will be going forward. Be prepared to make changes because there will be ones who wont want to change, cant change, or are just the wrong people. They will complain the most and you need to carve them out quickly and publicly...the others will take notice and change......

Just changing a pay plan will not accomplish anything (IMO)

I have a lot of questions about your operation and before I can render an opinion on the pay plan I would need some answers.

More importantly, your definition of efficiency is different to how I've been taught. I always believed efficiency is time allotted to actual time doing the work. So, if I am given 2 hours to complete a task and it takes me 2 hours I am 100% efficient. If I take a crap for 30 minutes it is not part of the equation. Other measurements must be take to determine the cause of inefficiency.

Productivity is the difference of clock hours vs hours working on cars (accounts for above mentioned potty break). So if you guys are slow and there are not enough cars the tech does not get a bad rep for being inefficient.

To better explain, 3 times are needed to be measured and calculated. Time on the clock (40 hours, available) time working on cars (actual) and time given per task (billed, booked, flat rate time).

Efficiency is billed divided by actual. A journeyman tech should aim for 135%

Productivity is actual divided by available, aim should be for 90%

If you find your guys are not efficient you need to determine if they are lazy, ill equipped, untrained or unmotivated. Increasing efficiency via pay can only change unmotivated. If you find your guys are unproductive you need to figure out if there are not enough cars, not enough staff or scheduling needs to be looked at. Again, unmotivated is the only factor that might be modified by pay. If your techs need to unload a truck full of tires they cant be working on cars and thats a factor.

How you currently measure does not give me enough data to give an opinion on pay.

13 hours ago, 3PuttFever said:

Looked up Wheeling. Big shop. Over twice my size. Looks bright, clean, and open.

Thanks, been doing this 30 years now. Started out as a 2200 sq ft 5 bay shop and moved into the rest of the building 16 years ago. While there are many successful shops represented here I would say for large shops Anderson and I are similar (we've gotten to similar sizes and numbers <mine are better haha>) but got there on completely different roads when it comes to marketing.

13 hours ago, 3PuttFever said:

I just met with an oil vendor who thinks I need to raise my oil change prices to attract less of the declining public. Hard paradigm shift and I'm not certain that's the right path to take now...

Anderson has become very successful going the route of the oil change special but his route is offering incredible value (really cheap synthetic oil change and inspection) which will cause some of the real deadbeats to seek service elsewhere (think $12.95 lofs). You can read about his success in many forums here. Me....I was a little more idealistic in my approach. I don't have a menu price for anything. People do not come to me for price and I don't want them to. While we don't charge much (about $35) for a basic oil change we do not advertise price or specials anywhere anytime I dont care how slow it might be. The times I have done it many years ago I regretted every time. People find me because they are tired of being sold something they don't need, incompetence, or just plain poor service.

So, we offer value through our service without the special. Different routes. While there were many times in the early years I was fearful because business was slow, I've never managed the business from fear of being broke. I have always taken the route of doing things (IMO) the right way and the money will follow. It have worked out well for me.

As a businessman (who is getting older, wiser and less idealistic) I can see the route Anderson has taken could be appealing to gain quicker car count (ouch).

13 hours ago, 3PuttFever said:

I'm in year 4 of buying a thriving shop in a growing area amidst a downturn and lots of competition opening up every year. Hard paradigm shift and I'm not certain that's the right path to take now...

Now, all that being said. You need to figure out what sets you apart from all this new (and old)competition. I will bet every time that service, expertise and convenience will win, and price is not part of the picture. Probably some of the best advice I can give from my experience is let the top 20% of you customers dictate who you are and what you do. Focus on that and not what the bottom 20% of your customer base tells you. We have a tendency to focus on the pain and try to minimize it but in reality you cant fix miserable people with miserable cars and wallets. You can increase the pleasure of great customers which will keep work fun.

Ok, I looked up bowing Rock NC....you cant find techs because you're in the middle of nowhere...BUT

You have a 5 week backlog!!!!!! Charge more.....if the shops that charged 45-55 were worth anything you would not have 5 weeks of backlog.

39 minutes ago, ncautoshop said:

 I don't have any issue AT ALL with someone making $50,000+ - =

 

if a technician expects $50,000 a year but isn't willing or capable complete the work in front 

 

The problem now is, we're offering techs half of our billable rate before tax -,

 

I've got a parking lot full 5 days a week and a schedual full 5 weeks out and can't seem to find experienced technicians that want to work.
 

4 things I'll respond to. A top tech should be making 80k plus per year easily.

If a tech isnt willing fire them. If they aren't capable train them and/or pay them accordingly. If they aren't capable I would question the title "Technician"

Raise your billable rate, techs should make 30% of labor billed.

The only reason you have parking lot full and people who are willing to wait 5 weeks for service is YOUR TOO CHEAP or you are the ONLY choice. People do not wait 5 weeks for car service where I am from. If I run more than 3-4 days behind we lose opportunities.

I am not picking on you or putting you down. I am trying to help. The last line about 5 weeks is your key. You need to charge more period.

On 9/3/2017 at 7:47 AM, ncautoshop said:

What frustrates me the most is we've been offering good money! But a lot of the candidates want a guarantee of $xxx.xx - I've learned a lesson with this, I can't guarantee anything if they aren't productive! They still receive a living wage but demanding a guarantee of $900+ a week, and they can't generate that in revenue, I can't afford to do that!
 

This is where our industry is so screwed up! FLAT RATE!!! All the industry guru's who want to put techs on flat rate because they cant teach and we cant learn how to properly motivate our technicians. Asking for a guarantee of 46k per year to show up is not out of line (for a journeyman) and if you cant afford to guarantee a quality tech that you need more help than a tech can give you. Offering $30-$40 a hour flat rate is great. IF you have the work, IF a tech gets truly paid for all they do..they will make a great living. I don't know of many who would turn down an actual dollar rate per hour and still give you an honest days effort if properly motivated.

Everyone talks about how they offer good money. What isn't really discussed is how many techs are underpaid because their owner/advisor does not charge properly, gives stuff away or just plain expects someone to work for free. Discussions on this board about we pay our techs .2 for an oil change.....there is not a single person here who could pull a car in, give it a decent visual inspection, set air pressure in tires, adjust fluids, change oil and filter and back the car out in 12 minutes. Ain't happening and should not be an expectation. However there are techs getting .2 flat rate to do this with the caveat that what they find they will get to do if sold. OH YEAH...and car count. It should not be a techs concern if you can provide enough quality car count. Somewhere somehow as owners we've been taught if we're not getting paid they shouldn't either......that's a bunch of BS. IMO.

We need to learn how to properly charge for our services, charge for all of our services and pay our people better than living wages based on the skills they have. There should be no journeyman plumber who makes more than their tech counterpart. (i'm not picking on plumbers).

Anderson did you a favor by looking on Google Maps. I suspect if you do expand people will be encouraged to park in front of the glass shop, or on the edge of the front parking lot to access the new office. Wont take long before someones bitching because you have too many cars are up front or there's no more parking. Look at my lot, we have like 8 spots up front and we handle like 24 cars per day. We are constantly shuttling cars in front and in back

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1248906,-87.9506014,194m/data=!3m1!1e3

12 minutes ago, sparkerauto said:

I send out flyers every 3 months or so, Facebook, google ad words and what not. I do have a lead tech, I still fix vehicles but also am the advisor too so If I did make this happen I would have to hire a full time advisor or give up fixing cars and hire another tech. so yes it would be a big decision and drastic change of how things are run here currently. thank you for your input. 

In your vision, how will this move improve the business other than visibility and waiting room? How will the business grow? What are the projected numbers and how will you afford the increase in rent and people? How well is the business doing now?

Like Anderson, I once rented 2200 sq ft. I expanded into 12.5k sq feet overnight and was able to survive the growth but it was not easy. It also dramatically changed my role in the business.

3 hours ago, xrac said:

 

5% seems low to me.  Are you able to do that in the Chicago market?

5% was the benchmark used for both RL Oconnor and elites 20 groups. Our rent is less than 5% of sales (currently 110k annually)but we also are triple net and in Crook county Illinois where property taxes support the finest crooks there are (currently 60k per year). Overall we are at 6.8% and paying average rental rates for our area.

I own the building as well.

According to the benchmarks I follow rent should be 5% of sales. If I were to add it to current rent and then benchmark it would it equal more than 5%? If so how much more do you have to do in sales to account for the increase in rent. Will the visibility bring in that much more business?

The space sounds like it will not produce but maybe give the ability to produce more out of the current space? Will it give you better image not based on visibility but perception when a new customer walks in? All of these things should be considered.

-also-

You currently are a tenant in this complex and I suspect in good standing. I would attempt to negotiate a better rate (possibly giving longer terms) and using that to my advantage. You've proven to pay rent and be a responsible tenant, the landlord should prefer to rent to you and give that more consideration than someone off the street.

Good luck!

I'd be curious about what your expectations are. What is it you want out of starting your own business? You stated making money for yourself rather than someone else. Have you written a business plan? Have you defined sales expectations? Net profit expectations?

Most everyone here has not done this so it's easy for me to stand here and question you. If I had it to do over again I would define my expectations. You said your willing to work 70-80 hours a week.,,,,,,,for what? Think about it. Owning your own business is not about how hard you want to work but about working smarter. Matthew likes to talk about how important car count it....well...car count is great to have but if your not making money on those cars they are useless. How do you plan on charging? Do you know how to properly price out auto repair or do you charge what the guy down the street charges?

Have you thought about the time it will take for administrative duties? Do you enjoy administrative duties?

Two pretzels were walking down the street........ one was assaulted 

On 7/29/2017 at 6:38 PM, skm said:

if a vehicle needs a reflash or a part is going to need programming and I know it is something I am unable to do I send them to the dealer. I find that being straight up with the customer they will continue to use you for all their needs.. A job lost to the dealer because it may not be cost effective to you may lead to a customer that has more confidence in your for being completely honest with them.. I tell them It is not cost or time effective for me to purchase equipment to do the flashing and as stated above some only take a one time flash screw that up and you have to buy a new module or ecm, easier to let the big guys (dealers) with the money to make those repairs. That way you aren't out money and time , the bottom line is we want to make more money than we spend in a timely manner  I had a Kia forte the other day the bcm was bad (would not release the shift interlock ) I did a quick look through my scanner to see if I could do the programming , but didn't see it.. On some models you can copy the old bcm if you can communicate with it and then install the new one and program. Instead of taking any chances I told the guy the problem he was happy , been several places that installed new brake light switch , new solenoid etc. if they had just done some bidirectional communications and checked some very simple wiring (after removing the center console everything is right there including the bcm) they could of made the correct diagnosis. He paid for the diagnostic time agreed upon when he first brought the car in and said he would like to use me for his other repairs. 

I feel there are many arguments of why IMO this is a poor long term solution. I am in the big city so unlike smaller markets where each has his niche here if given a chance, there are a lot who will take your lunch and eat it without care.

1) I wholeheartedly agree with you to be honest and up front with customers.

What happens when you send customer to dealer? Does the customer come in and request reflash? If so, what happens if it does not solve problem? Does the dealer want to diag the problem first? Is the customer prepared to pay again? Or do you not charge diag time since you cant solve problem?

Let's say dealer does diag, comes up with different outcome and it fixes the car, how does that reflect on your company?

My first solution is to sub it to the dealer. Never send a customer to another for service, they might just find that the service is better and never return. If you think the only reason they come to you is cheaper you have little to offer on that alone.

If you desire to discuss this further the second part is the technology side as well. To what level is the technical capability? HOw will it keep up if you dont learn to do what is becoming more and more run of the mill?

3 hours ago, xrac said:

They do but they also sell alot of cheap chinese stuff as well. Just looked at a popular size and saw Sentry, Arizonian, GT Radial, Kuhmol, Falken, etc.  All low end stuff. They aslo have some name brands but some of those are like the Walmart name brands. Manufactured for them to who knows what standard.  I find often when pricing against them that they are selling their second line heads up against the mine as a brand for brand pricing when it is not the same stuff.  

They sell A LOT OF TIRES. it is a different business model that the repair model that sells tires. I am sure the kick backs they get are much deeper then ours. In addition  to that they have such a narrow niche, they can have advantages we dont such as house brands made by the same manufacturers we represent. 

As far as "off shore" tires they have to cater to the whole market, you got to have a bottom to help bottom feeders

$120 Chicago suburbs. I can see $130 by the end of the year.

I think in the near future we will be going thru a major industry change. I think labor rate will go up substantially.....like 30%. There is a major tech shortage out there and the ones who will win will be able to compensate their people properly and that's going to take a lot more $$$ and a change in how we currently compensate techs. (flat rate)

Of all the industry speak I hear all shops including so called good ones are having difficult times finding employees. Business has been really really good....but we can't keep up.