skm

ahh yes, lol the code tells you what is wrong guys. Unfortunately I work with those guys LOL.. I have seen them go round and round with a car, I come over and in a short time find the problem for them. Then when the customer comes to get the car they wear the crown proudly , trying to BS their way through any questions the customer asks taking full credit for the diagnostics . Sometimes I will step in and give the explanation of the problem making them wonder if the guy they are talking too really did the job, but I do not come out and out them completely . These guys are really no better than the customer who thinks the code tells all . I always tell them think of a code as a number on a door, open that door and there is a long hallway lined with doors on both sides up and down, behind one of those doors is the problem, you can guess and open every door for a fee or just diagnose the problem and open just the one door . I think that one door is going to cost less than opening several till you find the problem. These guys you will find, are also the Youtuber's for repair. I had a customer come to me yesterday with a 2017 jeep he slammed the door and knocked the glass off track. I gave him the estimate to put it back.. "That's okay I can figure it out on Youtube." off he went. about three hours later I see him pull up , I am thinking great look at this guy coming to gloat in his glory. Nope he had four band-aids on his fingers and a now broken regulator and door handle.. As he agreed to my estimate he stated " See the difference between the average guy and the mechanic is the average guy can take it apart they just can't put it back together where as the mechanic can put it back together" I just looked at him laughed and said "Really that is what you think" I said "the difference is we figure out what is wrong and make the repair without breaking tons of other parts, not to mention we don't wear as many band-aids !" Also remember one thing, who told you what was wrong with your window.

This article is really based on the lack of preparedness of the students leaving the college program at the college I'm teaching at. Their theory is that they'll learn that on the job. My thinking is....learn it now, get good at it later. Gonzo, I think we touched on this in one of the chats.. I Graduated from LTI at the end of 1990 , it seems as if the schooling is the same then it was now as far as what they teach. Of course back then it was okay since the "electrical age" was just getting started. Now we are deep in the "electrical age" and it seems to me to be where the majority of the focus needs to be period! Is it lack of good teachers, good equipment, being lazy or a monetary thing as far as the school is concerned ? Are people really scared of change?? if we don't communicate the right message to the consumer, how in the world can they comprehend the costs associated with repairing and servicing their hi-tech vehicles? Joe, I can't count how many times I say this every single day at work. Of course saying something is one thing implementing it is another, but when you tell a customer this, they seem to roll their eyes and sometimes just walk off "trying to rip me off, a diagnostic charge" I just let those guys go , I feel sorry for them because the will probable end up at some hack shop who ends up charging them more than I would on a total bill since they will probably have several parts and possible many trips back to that shop before the problem is solved. That being said how do you get the customer aware of these things? I think it may have to come from someone rather than the tech or the shop, but who???? ps I don't know what happened to the quote thing, I had to copy and paste that is why I attached the names to the end of the quote

Awesome ! I am sure that is one of the main points of this forum to help others.. From many different point of views.. as some may think I am full of crap, because of my position in this business, but I have been in the business for a good while now, seen a lot of changes and have what a think is a pretty good grasp on what works and what doesn't in most cases but not all..

yes sir ! and remember that demographics also play a role in things 😁

very good point.. I think that also with some brains working for you it makes it a lot easier.. Then there is more of a comfort in being able to charge what you should be charging for repairs. Guts, well yes you do need the guts to be able to raise your prices to an appropriate level when other shops around keep theirs low, another reason to have some good brains working for you , One of the most important things in this business more so than car count "REPUTATION" AND "QUALITY" work !

Im game if someone wants to take a chance on me LOL 😂

I would love to make that... sign me up 😜

One thing I have noticed is work expectations, you get the young one's out of UTI or LTI they come get a job and think they should be getting top pay like the guy that is fully certified and has many many years of experience under his or her belt.. They don't seem to understand that what they learned is the basis for getting their foot in the door. Once they see how much more there is to learn and how little they make compared to the seasoned ones they get discouraged. I have seen many guys come through the shop and quit after a very short time because of pay that the thought they would make.. I always tell them it is like building a house on a concrete slab.. what you learned in school, was that concrete slab being laid with the roughed in plumbing. NOW you have to build that house on that slab. Sure you sell that slab by it's self you can get some money for it but if you sell the completed house you will get a lot more. I also don't think there is a good focus on the cars of today in school ( I could be wrong) . Not enough knowledge is given on diagnostics (electrical) things, which we all know is what our cars are now a days .. a bunch of rolling modules all communicating with one another to make things work. Just as cars now a days talk along two lines of communication take it all in, filter what they need and discard the rest as junk, unfortunately that is also what it has come to as far as hiring mechanics (techs)

So true, I use to put money away now i pay bills, The industry has not kept up with cost of living, price of tools, education both with the techs and the public. It has become an art but also a dying art at the same time. Not only do they not want to get their hands dirty , they don't want a career that continues to cost them money over the duration of it. It seems that the tool companies have kept up with the times tools keep getting more and more expensive. They understand that we need the tools to get the job done, supply and demand = pricing . So over time our industry may get to the point that it is a well paying career once enough techs get fed up and leave it and we don't have the young ones joining, but how long will that be? Probably not in my career or at the very end . Time will Tell .

Oh I find myself preaching a lot of this GREAT article all the time LOL.. It is too early and on my day off for me to get fired up LOL 😡

All depending on the size of your business, the quality and integrity of your employees. I am not new in the automotive industry, I have seen many many many techs. Unfortunately many don't care as much about the customer nor the business as they do about their pay check. So if the shop starts to get an influx of customers and is already running at a good high rate , there is going to be more pressure put on the staff to get these cars in and "repaired" to keep the new customers happy. In return that WILL put more pressure on your staff. Also if your staff is more worried about what is going in their pockets vs taking care of the customer and building a long relationship your quality of work and reputation can be effected. I Did not say that is the case in every shop, I was just giving my 2 cents when someone asked for help 😜

I don't know if that is the best strategy. I think way too much emphasis is put on car count.. Some of our best weeks have been with lower car counts.. I think more needs to be focused on quality of work and charging fair and appropriate fees for the service provided.. In turn results in a proper higher RO amount . Cars now a days are too sophisticated and need someone who really knows what they are doing to diagnose, repair , and confirm that repair. So a quick in and out or building the car count may produce a less favorable repair ie. more comebacks, and even throwing parts at cars to get the next one in . Resulting in a larger income for a short time , but maybe a lower income for the long run. This may work for say a quick lube or tire place, but for a full service shop may actually hurt the reputation and the business in the long run.. That being said it is your business. Do what you think will work that is just my 2 cents.

All I can say and strongly believe in is "You Get What You Pay For" .

There are a few things that I think need to be kept in mind.. one I always charge a diagnostic fee on electrical/check engine lights of 100 bucks.. The customer is made aware if it is an electrical problem ie short or something the diagnostic will still be 100 bucks but a repair cost will include looking for the short.. Also we have our reputation to keep in mind, so anyone that comes to me with parts in hand or codes that some parts store, their neighbor, or they have pulled I tell them I will not put the parts on or go off of what they give me .. i will do my own diagnostics and repair the car properly since my reputation is on the line and I am good at what I do and I want my reputation to stay the way it is.. Also customers when they come with their own parts you lose money from the get go both with diagnostics and with the part. Also when you let a customer bring their own parts they will always want to bring their own parts, and when you give in and give a customer a deal every time that customer comes in you are going to be in a battle over a deal again. So nip it in the bud just don't do it.. It seems the ones you help out and give a deal are the one's that are the biggest pain in the butt.. Let them go they are not making you money in fact are making you lose money with parts and the time spent arguing with them over cost and diagnostics . Last, it is your business not the customer's business . We do not live in a country where we barter for things we are a capitalist country . When was the last time you saw someone at the grocery store making a deal over the price of their groceries or go behind the deli counter and fill their own bags of meat and cheese and ask for a discount since they helped themselves? never happens so why let it happen you your business?

i am sure that story is going to bring out all kinds of gory responses.. Can't wait for that one 😆

yes the bugs, mice and rats ewwww... the biggest thing I came across was a full grown buck stuck under the front end of a little old ladies car.. She pulled up to the station in an old crown vic with a huge buck stuck under the front of the car . leaving a nasty skid trail of fur etc as she came in . She calmly walked up to me and asked if I could remove the deer from under her car she had been dragging it around for the last two days (over the weekend) .. How could I say no to a little old lady, so I grabbed some rubber gloves and went over to take a better look. I took a quick look and decided the best way was to just back up and see what happens. I got the keys from her threw it in reverse and slowly started backing up since I wanted to drag it as far from my bay as possible. As I started to back up she started clapping and cheering as I backed a few more feet i could see the deer laying right outside my bay door. I got out of the car she came up to me and said " If I knew all I had to do was back up I would of done that two days ago" so this little old lady seems to only drive forward. WOW . I ended up calling the county to come and pick the deer up they said it would be several hours and it needed to be dragged to the edge of the road so I guess I didn't put the rubber gloves on for nothing, Luckily I think it had lost a lot of its weight being dragged around for two days LOL.

wheelingauto, I have been in the business for a long time, I am not worried about losing a customer to the dealership. In fact most not all but most people don't like the dealership... Now as far as the wrong diagnosis yes that may be possible, but I am pretty good at what I do and am very certain of a diagnostics before I ever contact a customer. There is far more fear in losing customers to carp shops and street mechanics than to a dealership... As far as the technology side, I keep very up to date on things.. buying equipment and subscriptions to reflash at this time is going to be a waste of money.. Things are going telematic, so there will be no need for reflashing equipment probably sooner than you think...

I see your point and agree to a certain extent.. The thing is I am not trying to train these guys. I have even found problems and scrolled the problem to the top of the scanner on the data or just added in a couple other data reading to the problem and they still can't figure it out. They are older than me and been at it longer than myself.. I have been doing this for 26+ years, but was very young when I got into the business just 17 (kicked out of high school went to LTI) . It seems to be a very common thing that these guys just throw parts at cars hoping to fix them and not doing any testing after the repair to make sure they fixed the problem. Sure back 20+ years ago there wasn't much in the way of diagnostics that needed to be done.. but that is a very very different story now a days.. These are the guys that continue to give good mechanics a bad name, not to mention I have over heard them talking about just plugging their scanner in and they would know the problem.. Well if you can find a scanner like that I would love to have one.. This is part of the reason i think that mechanics are underpaid for what they do.. you get the guys throwing parts guessing etc.. sure why pay a diagnostic for that. But the ones that do it correctly are the ones that suffer..

I am complexed about how many "Mechanics" just don't get it... I work with two guys older than myself, I am no spring chicken but not old either.. One of the guys had a car with a p0171 as most know a very common code lean bank 1. He had replaced the o2 sensors two weeks ago on a Saturday a day I don't work.. The customer came back with the same code IMAGINE THAT ! So they asked me to take a look at it with the other mechanic, I had shown this guy about fuel trims a few weeks ago. I hooked my scanner up looked at 02 data , maf , long and short term fuel trims.. at idle the LTFT was high 19 not high enough to set the code, and the O2 showing what you would think low voltage (lean). I raised the rpms and noticed the maf readings still low and the LTFT rising. At which point I put the car in drive and the LTFT really started to rise at idle and maf stayed low, I raised the rpms the car hesitated and the LTFT kept climbing.. I asked the guy what he thought he had no Idea.. So I told him pop the hood the air induction hose is broken between the maf and the throttle body.. He thought I was joking, He opened the hood and was in shock "how did you know that"? I told him simple I know what I am looking at and how things work, but my question to him was how come he did not know that. He looked like a deer in headlights.. He replaced the induction tube, at which point I hooked the scanner back up to show him that now we can prove our repair was good.. I asked him what he would think would happen he had no Idea. so I pulled up all the same items and told him to watch the LTFT and that it will fall quickly and the O2 would come to life.. Sure enough it did in fact the LTFT went a little negative -5 I asked him why he thought that happened he had no Idea, I explained it had been adding fuel for so long it is probably saturated and there is probably a lot of fuel still in the engine and exhaust manifold.. it would clean out as time goes by but that proves the repair is good. At which point I unplugged the scanner and that was that.. now today same lean code on a different car the guy looked at me I said remember what we did ? He said yea, I went over after about half an hour and he had not figured anything out.. in fact he had all kinds of not needed data up on the scanner.. I shook my head pulled up the fuel trims did a few easy checks noticed that the fuel trims went back in the good range with the rpms raised told him to look for a vac leak . HE found one I showed him the fuel trims again and how it verified the repair was good... He still has no Idea of what we went over! is it me or is there a need for a lot of learning to be done .. do some people just have the knack and others are just destined to be guessers and parts changers?

if a vehicle needs a reflash or a part is going to need programming and I know it is something I am unable to do I send them to the dealer. I find that being straight up with the customer they will continue to use you for all their needs.. A job lost to the dealer because it may not be cost effective to you may lead to a customer that has more confidence in your for being completely honest with them.. I tell them It is not cost or time effective for me to purchase equipment to do the flashing and as stated above some only take a one time flash screw that up and you have to buy a new module or ecm, easier to let the big guys (dealers) with the money to make those repairs. That way you aren't out money and time , the bottom line is we want to make more money than we spend in a timely manner 😉 I had a Kia forte the other day the bcm was bad (would not release the shift interlock ) I did a quick look through my scanner to see if I could do the programming , but didn't see it.. On some models you can copy the old bcm if you can communicate with it and then install the new one and program. Instead of taking any chances I told the guy the problem he was happy , been several places that installed new brake light switch , new solenoid etc. if they had just done some bidirectional communications and checked some very simple wiring (after removing the center console everything is right there including the bcm) they could of made the correct diagnosis. He paid for the diagnostic time agreed upon when he first brought the car in and said he would like to use me for his other repairs.

it would be nice if we could trade these "bottom draw" obsolete tools in on a new useful one. 🤔 It would make more room for the ones of us who don't have the safety or shelf space for our "plastic container" tools and or old scanners ( I have gotten rid of most just have my otc genisys good for the TPMS stuff )

I can not look at it as a business owner since i am not one, but I can say I think what you are doing is correct.. Giving him a flate rate dollar amount on top of his salary is a good incentive. I think the most important thing is to be honest with him let him know the more he learns the more he can make especially with the flat rate. He needs to know it is a hard job with a huge learning curve that keeps on curving it never ends it does get easier the more you understand but you are always learning in this business. Also let him know that being the best he can being certified etc may help him in the long run. As I stated in my prior post most young ones believe they deserve top pay , but you must prove yourself and it will come (in most cases not so much in mine but that is another story) . The first 3 owners of the shop I am currently at were great like yourself helping me along pushing with incentives etc. The last few owners don't know the business just had money and thought it would be fun to own a station. That being said a good owner with good mechanics of all levels will do just fine and be able to continue into the future as this automotive world becomes more and more complex... All the best to you and your business .

100% I sit in on the interviews and actually conduct most of it even though I myself am just a Mechanic. But being at the same place for over 26 years I guess I know what it takes .

xrac, I think there are very few that know what hard work is.. As you said they want to be on social media or building super fast computers to play games on. They also think they can do their jobs by using the internet, google, or youtube. It is a totally different generation. The other big problem is they (well almost all of the general public) believe mechanics are rich, so they come in to the job expecting to make a boat load of money.. they don't realize everyone starts at the bottom you don't start at the top . we recently hired an older guy to pick up the slack (small jobs , oil changes, tires , batteries, etc.) during his interview I asked him what he could do he replied everything. So I asked him again what do you know how to do he replied I have been doing this for 24 years . I asked again, I didn't ask how long I asked what can you do he replied I put engines in , transmissions in, I stopped him there ( that is a big red flag when you get an answer like that from a seasoned person that means I can't do any diagnostics etc.) I started to ask him about diagnostics, fuel trims , o2s evap systems etc common stuff he had no idea. He replied well I can call someone or you can help me.. Well I am there to make a living just as you are, I can not make a living for both of us. So we came to an agreement that he would get a 500 dollar salary a week with 40% commission (which I think 40% was too high for his qualifications ) so he can make more money if he works hard.. He agreed well this was on a Friday that Monday he was to start he called and said he had to go to Harbor freight and buy some tools, some crazy story that his tools were in his wife's car an the transmission went out.. Okay well I don't know any decent mechanic that can keep his tools in the trunk of a honda civic. anyway he said he would come in tuesday. Tuesday around 10:30 he was suppose to be there at 8 he shows up and wants to argue about his pay he needs at least 1000 a week salary . Ha no way not to mention you can't even show up on the first day then given another chance you come in two and a half hours late and want to argue a higher pay.. Needless to say he was sent packing not heard from again.

Great to hear Gonzo ! I need to do some more walking myself.. You know the story with my wife, after that life change I lost about 35lbs and have kept it off... haven't had a drink in over 4 years and haven't had a smoke in over 3 years.. After a while the diet change and lifestyle change just becomes normal.. Keep up the good work!