3PuttFever

 

Like I said, I was speaking in generalizations and definitely NOT singling anyone out.

I'm sure there are many great shop owners in the US, just like in every other country out there.

Lots of the guys on this forum are especially great guys, because we are all trying to better ourselves as shop owners and as people.

I'm guessing the weak turnout you're seeing is just a symptom of the real problem, which as stated by mspec is poor industry marketing image and a weak training and support system for cultivating talent.

 

All I was saying is that I've even seen threads in here about paying entry level techs barely over $10/hour and top techs in the $25-28 range.

If this profession is going to stack up against other trades and not be looked down upon, the pay better be on par for starters, especially since automotive requires such a high tool investment.

PS. I'd love to see your shop sometime, it sounds like a dream!

 

 

 

I don't disagree with you about the cash for clunkers deal that went down (we heard all about it up here).

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion either, but don't think that socialism is your holy grail.

We're much more socialistic in Canada and we've got our share of major problems too.

For example, we just passed our annual "tax freedom day" on June 6, whereas you guys had yours on April 24, a month and a half earlier.

Canada's total tax rate for the whole country is 43%, but for the US it's a much more reasonable 31%.

I can only imagine what I'd do if I had an extra 12% of my gross income to spend each year.

You can't compare a government funded program to our free market system in America. Your taxes are high in Canada to provide for subsidized programs like your Automotive Tech Apprentice program. As you can tell from everyone's unique response we face individual challenges in employing bright people.

I've lost some very talented Techs to personal life situations, greed, and to government employment which includes salary, retirement plan funding, and full benefits for the entire family. Tell me I don't have a right to be upset by the same government I overpay taxes to stealing my talent with pay and benefits I can't come close to competing with ever.

We have a culture crises in America. A unionized plumber or electrician is one thing. An Automotive Technician working in an independent shop is not the same ballpark. Their education, training, and dues paid are not the same ballpark. But we have is attitudes that decry 'I'm working hard, busting my hump for some owner making all the money. I should be paid more'. Fact is, I've got my tail on line to the bank, to vendors, to my customers. I'm doing all I can to provide a good environment where my employees can provide for themselves and have something left over. Does it matter to candidates? Not one bit.

No matter how much training and experience you have you just can't fix stupid.

Do we remember when sales and cars were higher? Do we know why? Maybe. Business can be cyclical and there are bigger wheels turning the machine that we can possibly understand. As owners the best we can do is keep a positive outlook, faith in our systems and people, and keep treating our customers like the friends they are to us - even the not-so-nice ones! Things will get better for us if we're doing what's right, doing our best, and working honestly with our customers. I'm a big believer in that mantra. It may be naive but if I'm doing it right it will pay off. And if I'm going to fail at least I will know I never cheated anyone and did my best.

I'm also going door to door to businesses and working in Chamber functions to network for more business. My community is slowing while it's growing if that makes sense. Business is down everywhere. My vendors and competitors tell me. I want more cars. I'm going to get more cars and like the SwagMaster we aren't out to milk anyone but fix safety issues and plant seeds. The ONLY thing I do know is that doing nothing will result in the same. Gotta try whatever I can afford to get car count up.

And I can't for the life of me understand why sending mailers with offers screams 'we're slow'. Every shop, especially the big shops does it here. The public sees this, thinks about them, and goes there. If anything sending offers screams 'we want your business and to get you to come in how about this...?'

Guys, this is all neat and nice but some of us run an all makes/models type of operation. We get all types of customers. There are some customers who don't want anything more than an oil change and we'll gladly work on their vehicles. I've done Mudlick and had some failure and some success. Stories in this forum are from people who can bring up one bad example and associate every new customer who comes in because of a coupon as a cheap customer not worthy of your time.

Love Marconi's work here but I don't agree a bit with some of what he writes. My shop is in a high traffic suburb and lately my car counts have lagged. We're doing all we can to help our customers. We inspect vehicles, we communicate honestly with our customers, we show them what we find. Then, we give them the estimated repair price. They can say yes, they can say no, they COULD come back if they say NO today. But if I treat them like they're beneath me because I don't like their decision then I'm no better than the folks who have helped give our industry a bad name. The more chances I have at the plate the more hits I'll have.

I know other shop owners who have used Mudlick and have car count increases as a result. This is a numbers game for some of us. I want new customers and if I can acquire them with an oil change offer that can help establish a long-lasting and trusting relationship then that is what I want.

My local Honda Dealership claims 'Brakes Installed: $159.99'. This includes OEM brake pads, one axle, and anything else is extra. The fine print mentions hardware, rotors (serviced or replaced), and other items additional. Weak

We offer a few inspections for free. Brakes, exhaust, suspension. But a good initial interview with the customer usually reveals whether or not we need to charge diagnostic labor to figure out the issue. Occasionally, we will not see/hear anything obvious with our inspection and will need to have the customer approve diag labor. And, on occasion, some customers will have the work done themselves, at their Uncle's shop, or go to a competitor. But the only way we know this is if they return and we're happy they returned. We ask if there was a reason they went somewhere else to have the work done and they tell us, we thank them for returning, and we hope for better next time. Now, if this happens a second time I flag their name and only allow them back in my shop for drop off appointments where we can work on the car on our schedule.

Our process pre-wheel falling off was twice with the stick then test drive. Now we're double-checking with torque wrench after the stick and I've put a statement on invoices to return in 50 miles to have them checked again. This truck isn't washed often, or at all, and I also believe that corrosion caused this to work loose. The other three wheels were at spec and tight when it came back. Luckily, the customer was very understanding and we took care of him.

That's what I'm planning on doing. I know the customer and he's not lying to me about it happening and doesn't have any knowledge of anyone else touching his wheels. I have no reason to doubt him but our opinion is that if it left our shop loose it would have worked free well before 800 miles were driven. I have heard of extreme cases where build up corrosion on the wheel can create a false sense of the wheel being snug but wouldn't that same corrosion/buildup have already been there and the same thing have happened? This is a bad break for my shop and team but we'll work through it and hopefully not have it happen again.

Customer came in on April 6th for oil change and tire rotation. Has driven 795 miles. Wheel came off vehicle while driving. Customer claims we're last ones to touch wheels and expresses concern about our work, logically. I've been here two years and this hasn't happened before. Tech who rotated tires is thorough. All six lugs are missing, wheel cap is missing, stud holes in rim are wollered.

I can't say why this happened but I have my doubts that the pickup could have driven nearly 800 miles and now has this happen...

Will probably have to eat this one but I've put a disclaimer in place regarding tire rotations and returning to our shop after 50 miles for re-torque and check. Any thoughts?

Fantastic news - yet another example of why I do love what I'm doing. It's pretty easy to focus on the negatives in our service world but overall I believe our customers and communities are outstanding people/places. Really good of you to share this as you never know which one(s) of us are having a tough day or week. Reading these kinds of stories just makes my day!

 

See, Mike, this is a perfect opportunity for you to follow up! "Mr. King, I haven't heard from you regarding the facts to support your determination, if within XX days i haven't heard from you, we agree this matter is settled and you waive any and all future claims." In other words, put up, or shut up and forever hold your peace.

But you can't write something as if it's law just because it sounds legal. King won't respond to that either I'd guess.

Good luck with your latest 'fire' to put out!

I appreciate all the replies and thoughts. I've used the disclaimer but will amend it from these insights. Luckily, this only happens about two or three times a year.

Customer comes in the other day with brakes beyond safe. She talks to her boyfriend and decline the service. We advise her that the truck is unsafe and should be towed and not driven if leaving. She talks to boyfriend and decides to drive truck away. We have her sign our declined invoice with safety disclaimer stating that we advised customer of her unsafe vehicle and she has decided to not repair and drive vehicle anyway.

Tech tells me that it's stupid to do that because it won't hold up if it becomes a legal issue and he thinks that it could come back on him personally.

Thoughts?

Got to love 'em all! We see about 300 cars per month at my shop and naturally we're going to have a few of them that don't like the prices. Like you've all said, it isn't worth discounting and fighting over. I have a bigger issue with folks who lean up against my glass walls watching their car like a hawk asking questions about what we're doing and why in a demanding and rude manner. Had a customer freak out about how we took off a spin on oil filter because whomever did it last time over-torqued it and it collapsed with the filter tool. We had to take him out there and show him all while he's cussing and yelling. After about five minutes of being patient and explaining I finally told him I can't have him freaking out in my shop upsetting my other customers and staff. 'I know what I saw and if I have problems YOU'RE going to fix them!", he yells. I walk up to him, look him in the eye and said "I know you think you know what you saw but your truck is going to be just great or I will fix it at my cost." He just stares back at me and I at him. When we finished I have the Tech put the car up in the air to show him nothing is wrong with his truck, nothing is damaged, everything is fine. He again persists with his line of doubtful questioning and I say, "I've already told you this but I will go through it again..." He calms down and apologizes about five times, comes back the next day for tie rod ends and couldn't be nicer. Says to me, "I'm from Brooklyn, this is how we are. Where are you from?" I'm from here in Iowa and tell him. "I'm not so sure you're not from Brooklyn, too." We laughed and we have a new customer.

I usually drive the speed limit or close to it. Everyday I have impatient drivers gesturing from behind or beside me because I must be in their way. With self-driving cars everyone is going to drive the speed limit everywhere they go, every time they drive. Do we really believe that Americans are willing to give up their autonomy of driving at this point? Sure, convenience and the Tech factor are enticing but people want to make their own decisions and if that means hammering their vehicle to get around Mr. Speed Limit then that's what they're going to do. The Tech will be here way before true adoption. I believe it will be legislated into effect by Big Government long before it will be universally adopted by the public.

This type of thing used to upset me but it doesn't matter in the end. People are going to take their attitude of 'saving money' to wherever they go and not change the way they think about our industry no matter how we respond. I've had a customer who cancelled an order when he knew we were ordering from the dealer parts store and priced the part. He's never been back but he never did anything but coupon shop us. No loyalty and not someone I'd have a beer with - ever. And I like beer!

I don't charge what the dealer tells me is the list price. I have my own price formula and if I pay X for a part I'm going to mark it up Y and the customer can decline or approve. We are fair, honest, and reputable. If they're mad about a part being too expensive in their opinion then they're free to take that opinion to my competition up the street. I've also instructed my staff to not even bring up 'dealer parts' and use manufacturer instead of dealer. And besides, the customers don't care where the part came from unless they're a typical PIA customer. Thankfully, most of our customers are nice and understanding people that trade great service for a fair price.

We rarely turn away jobs but if there is one that we know will be or could end up being troublesome we give them starting out price/estimate. With that we explain that this job calls for X hrs of labor but in our experience the rust and/or other issues that add time make this a very expensive oversight. We will never proceed if we run into difficulties that extend the original estimate without customer communication and their approval for additional costs. They occasionally ask if their price would be reduced if we end up coming in under estimated labor time to which we say, yes, for this case we will do that for you.

We always look at every RO as an opportunity to solve a customer's issue and have them tell others of our great service. Sure, we all have cars we wished we would have turned away but you can't ever KNOW this before working on the car.

I print out the maintenance table services due at the milestone intervals. With the inspection report I will go through with the customer the things discovered both good and bad. If there is maintenance due, say a coolant flush, and we know the coolant is old and there is no evidence of a coolant flush we make the recommendation. What has been well received is saying "Just like Ford wants you to change the oil every so many miles/months they also have a schedule on other fluids like your coolant. Ford recommends you flush your cooling system every X miles. You're overdue for this service today and having us do this flush will (list benefits). Can we offer you a ride somewhere or would you like to wait while we get this done for you? They'll then ask for price or say sure, go ahead...

Had a customer just this morning. Rarely drives his Jeep. 21,900 miles in six years! Brought it in for an oil change/tire rotation. His first complaint was tire pressure going low in cold months. I explained that Nitrogen inflation will help alleviate the low air pressures on those cold days. How much, he asks. I give him the price which he says 'No'. Then he asks if we test the batteries. I go through the entire inspection process with him and show him our form. As expected his battery is very low and should be replaced before winter. I tell him the benefits of the battery from us (we install, dispose of the old, warranty) and give him the price. 'NO'.

Is this a win or lose appointment? Hard to tell at this point. My hunch is that this guy is a price shopper and despite telling me how much he enjoys our shop the fact is some people are only motivated by the cheapest price. But staying consistent with the benefits and doing it with a smile when being rejected is all part of the business.

Labor charges for little things depends how little they are in our shop. If they take more than 15 minutes then we charge parts + labor. Code reading? Sure, I tell them I can read their codes but that doesn't tell me what the problem is - that tells me what the code is reading. If you want me to diagnose it we 'start' at an hour. If it takes us less than 30 minutes we'll knock down the labor charge to be fair. We run into people all the time who claim the parts stores don't charge for diagnostics or that our real competition doesn't charge for diagnostic time but they're not being honest or they're ignorant. Most people understand and appreciate the explanation. Some don't and they usually find themselves going elsewhere.

I bought a franchise 18 months ago. My shop business is down 20%. Since I bought the place one shop that was closed reopened, two new shops opened up inside of 2 miles of mine. One of the two shops is a ten bay super-store with a huge marketing budget. I'm doing 60 - 100 fewer cars per month. My ARO is on the upswing and we're looking at our inspection and maintenance process as a way to improve sales and work more efficiently on the cars we DO have.

I've spent thousands on internet and direct mail campaigns. I see very little from either. My plan for 2016 is to stop discounting and start meeting as many people that I can get to know. People come to my shop for different reasons. Some for the cheap discounts, some for location, some because we provide great service. I want...I need strong relationships to get car counts back up.

There is no easy way here, guys!

I have the menuboard and lobby tv. The lobby tv is very reliable and useful. The menuboard is problematic. I've been through three boxes and I'm still having tech issues. Tech support is great but they're stumped on this one. I pay a rate negotiated through my franchise agreement so it isn't bad. You can put your own information on there. I have some pricing on there but it is in the form of 'starting at' or 'from' pricing. Never hit a snag with a price issue yet because of the menuboard.

I expect every retail service provider I use makes money on the parts and labor. I don't want to hassle with it. Some people will spend a dollar to save a dime. We have the privilege of dealing with all kinds of great and not-so great folks from time to time. We're respectful and don't install outside parts. Liability is the primary reason. The other is profitability. If a prospect doesn't want me to make a fair profit then I'm fine with losing their 'business'.

Guys, I bought a successful shop after 15 successfully recruiting Information Technology professionals for contracting roles. That was easy compared to this!

The good candidates are hard to find and even harder to recruit to your shops. One thing I'm trying now is to offer two ASE Master Technicians the role of Assistant Manager/Service Writer and Technician. They'll work two or three days up front and in the shop each week giving them a taste of both worlds. I'll be able to see who really can sell and who can't as well as who can produce and who can't. From there I can make better decisions, free up my time to be out selling to the larger accounts and community, and improve my shop efficiency/morale. Hard part is finding people who will actually come to work here after they tell me how great this all sounds.

Double posted - apologies