Quantcast
Jump to content

Shop Swappers - - - Some people swap shops as often as some shops swap parts

Gonzo

By Gonzo
in AutoShopOwner Articles

 Share

Recommended Posts

Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
Posted

Shop Swappers

I’m not just a shop owner, but also a consumer. As a consumer I’m always looking for the best deal, but… having been in the service industry for as long as I have, I also understand the value of quality service provided to me when I’m the consumer. If my HVAC at the house goes on the fritz, I’m not likely to call from place to place looking for the cheapest company, nor am I likely to go with the most expensive.

What I will do is go with the one that has been recommended, or one I feel comfortable with. That might even mean I have to pay a little extra to get that certain company to make the long journey to my home… but that’s what I’m paying for… quality service. Now, when the shoe is on the other foot, and I’m the service provider at my automotive repair shop, I assume my customers are looking at my services the same way. But, that’s not always the case with some “one time” customers, who are just looking for a deal or a cheap repair.

The phone rings and the lady on the other end began to tell me about her old pickup problem.

“I had it over at a shop, and they said it needed a new fuel pump. So they put one in, and now it has no power, and it sometimes bucks and jerks. Also, my A/C goes off and on intermittently. It didn’t do any of this until they changed the fuel pump.”

It’s not the first time I’ve got a call like this. I do want to help them, but at the same time I want to make sure they get some value out of what they have already spent to have their car repaired. My first response is always the same.

“Did you take it back to them, so they could check their work?” I asked.

“Yes I did. They installed another fuel pump, and it’s still doing the same thing.”

“Well, maybe the fuel pump isn’t your problem,” I answered back.

The conversation continued with more of the same questions and answers. Somehow, someway I work this statement into the conversation:

“If they told you they fixed your problem with a new pump, and it didn’t fix it to your satisfaction, then I suggest you go back and explain to them what you just told me and see if they will re-diagnose it.”

“OK, thanks for the tip I’ll take it back tomorrow.”

A week later, the phone rings.

“I did what you told me, and I took it back. They installed another pump, but it still is acting up. So, I took it to the dealership a couple of days ago. They put in a new A/C compressor and installed another fuel pump, but it still isn’t working correctly.”

Here I am, standing in my shop wondering what kind of person would take their car to one repair shop, pay for their work, then call another shop for advice, only to take it to an entirely different shop to be serviced. (Just to let you know… I make a living repairing cars…not giving advice.)

“Ma’am, I suggest you take it back to both places and have them make it right. There’s no reason to be calling me, you’ve obviously spent a lot of money at both places, and it sounds like you’re still not getting the results you expected. Unless you want to spend more cash with me to check it out, I’d suggest the same thing I told you before… take it back.”

“Oh, I don’t have any more money to spend on it.” (I could have guessed that.)

“Then take it back.”

When this sort of person doesn’t feel like they are getting anything accomplished at one shop, rather than deal with them they head to the next shop down the road. Spending more and more, and not get anything accomplished.

On the other hand, it could be they are not explaining their problem fully. As much as I hate to admit it, I turn into the grouchy old mechanic when people ask for my advice and I’m not getting compensated for my time. Could be why they only called for advice, instead of bringing it in. Sometimes all it takes is a service writer’s charm to get people to bring their car into a particular shop vs. another. (Obviously, that ain’t me.)

Salesmanship is one thing, but results are what matters. Sugar-coating the response to a potential customer doesn’t change the results back in the shop. When a “shop swapper” meets up with a “parts swapper” shop, (shops that don’t diagnose but use the old “9 out of 10 times this solves the problem” method.) … … it’s going to be a long drawn out repair job. Of course, the primary reason to even think about going to one of the “chain” store repair shops, or one of those “Have tools will change parts” places … is price or location. (Or they have that service writer with the gift of gab.)

A lot of people won’t ask for certifications or qualifications of the person working on their car. They see a big sign out front and it’s close to their home or office … and that’s all it takes… done deal.

These days with the advanced electronics and computer systems, false diagnoses are more common than ever before, and shops willing to swap a parts rather than test for a solution are even more common than in years past… and so are the “shop swappers”. (Must be an economy thing.)

Another time it was a car that came in with a finicky fuel gauge. If you hit a bump just right, the gauge would swing all the way to empty. He took it back several times to the repair shop, and they kept changing the same parts over and over again. The owner then took it to another shop who fiddled around with it for over a week, before they gave up. (And of course, he paid both shops for their time and efforts.) After I dragged some critical details out of the owner on and when it would happen, it led me to a chaffed wire that was nearly cut in two by a loose bracket in the engine bay. Problem solved.

He asked me, “If I would have brought it here in the first place would you have found it without putting all those parts on that the other shops did?”

You know, I’d like to say I would have, but… as I told him, “Maybe, but that would have depended on the condition of the original parts that were changed. Assuming all the original components were in working order, and you explained things as well as you have… then quite possibly yes.”

The moral of the story for the consumer out there who’s trying to get their car repaired: “When possible, always take your car back to the original shop first. Have them make it right. Stick with one and explain things fully. You’ll end up with better results and fewer headaches and less time shopping for a repair shop.”

 


View full article

  • Like 2
HarrytheCarGeek Experienced

HarrytheCarGeek

Posted
Posted (edited)

There is a watershed event in every shop owner's life when he stops taking crap from crappy customers and begins prospering and making nice profits from his labors.

 

Mine happened about 3 months into owning the business.

Edited by HarrytheCarGeek
  • Like 1
Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
  • Author
Posted

This has always been a subject line that I've never understood. For some people going to a mechanic is like going to a restaurant and not liking the food or the service. Some will complain about, some will just not go back to that restaurant ever again. It's the only comparison I can make about this "shop swapper" stuff.

 

My point of this whole story is to make clear to the consumers out there (and repair shops) that the best course of action is to go back and confront the shop that didn't do the job right. I know, I know... we're all in this to make a living, however, from a consumers viewpoint the next shop they are going to try (in their mind) can't be any better than the shop they just came from. I think this is where the mistrust of the auto repair business starts with the consumer.

 

If more shops would tell that prospective customer to return to the place they were at originally before getting into making the repair I believe more people would have MORE respect of you and the shop. If they insist on having you make the repairs and all goes well... (hopefully, ie... did they explain things thoroughly, do they understand the charges and are not going to throw a fit at the cost) then at that point tell them to go back to the original shop and see what compensation they can get out of them.

 

The whole goal of this is to get the consumer to face the fact that all shops are not the same and that all mechanics are not the same. Just as in the case of the bad restaurant if nobody goes back and tells them they suck it's going to take a lot of "no shows" at the restaurant before the owner gets the hint. Same thing at the repair shops.

 

If we as shop owners don't inform the consumer ... who is?

Gonzo Grand Master

Gonzo

Posted
  • Author
Posted

So much of what we do is just like you said Joe. When a customer can't explain things or thinks all things will be taken care of with one repair there is a lack of communication. The lack of communication also leads to a lack of understanding on their part. It just adds to the frustration level. Like I said in the article.. Explain everything.... And for shop services writers.....listen to everything.

phynny Community Regular

phynny

Posted
Posted

I recently made 5k due to a customers unwillingness to be honest, I shall explain.

 

So we get a call from some college kid who says his car is looting smoke out of the exhaust and wants to know what's wrong. I tell him I won't diagnose over the phone but he can have it towed over. As it arrives the tow truck driver starts the car to move it and it just completely plots smoke from the exhaust. I call the owner and try to get him to tell me the events leading up to the issue and be swears be did nothing to the car, it just has no power and smokes like a chimney. We went round and round and he finally convinced me. He then tells me he needs a car and h doesn't have much money. He explains he has another car that just needs miner work so I offer to trade him the "blown up" car for labor to help him out. We often keep a car around to fill with scrap as I'm sure most of you do.

 

Anyway, we fix his other car and something just kept bugging me about his story so I pull the car into the shop after work to just take a look. I pull the dipstick and find it is 3-4 quarts over filled so I drained the oil and got it to its proper level. Remember how he said it also lost power?, well guess what, the tranny was 3-4 quarts low...

 

So here's what I believe happened; genius 1 and 2 decided they were going to change their own oil to save a buck and drained the oil which was actually the trans fluid, after that they refilled the oil which was actually the oil and there you go... If they would've told me the truth it would have been a cheap fix for them. Instead, they lied and lied and I sold the car for 5k with having almost nothin invested.

 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Available Subscriptions

    See all Subscription Plans

  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

    • Joe Marconi
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      By Joe Marconi in Joe's Blog
         0 comments
      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.

  • Similar Topics

    • nptrb
      Mid-Year Reset: What Your Auto Shop’s Numbers Are Telling You
      By nptrb

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • carmcapriotto
      Stop Hiring in Panic Mode: Build a Recruiting Pipeline for Your Shop [RR 1094]
      By carmcapriotto
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Watch Full Video Episode Host Carm Capriotto welcomes Chris Lawson, founder of Technician Find, to discuss one of the biggest challenges facing independent auto repair shops today: finding and keeping great technicians.
      Chris explains why many shop owners fall into what he calls "fire alarm syndrome," waiting until a technician leaves before starting the hiring process. That reactive approach often leads to rushed decisions, poor hires, and ongoing turnover. Instead, he advocates for an "Always Be Recruiting" mindset, where shops continuously build relationships with potential candidates long before they have an opening.
      The conversation explores practical strategies for becoming a destination workplace, creating a recruiting pipeline, and building a culture that attracts top talent in a competitive market.
      What You'll Learn Why reactive hiring creates costly staffing problems How to build a bench of pre-qualified technicians before you need them Why becoming "10-mile famous" can help attract both technicians and customers How culture-focused marketing can outperform traditional help-wanted ads The three things technicians value most: respect, growth, and compensation Why sign-on bonuses often fail and how to structure them more effectively Practical ways to engage passive candidates who are not actively job hunting Resources available through Chris Lawson's free online community for shop owners
      The best time to recruit a technician is before you need one. Shops that continuously market their culture, build relationships with local talent, and maintain a pipeline of qualified candidates are better positioned to grow, avoid staffing emergencies, and create a workplace where top technicians want to stay. Recruiting is no longer an occasional task. It is an ongoing business strategy. Chris Lawson, TechnicianFind.Com Love your shop? Stay, but stay ready. Auto techs join to level up, find good shops, and keep tabs on top indie jobs nationwide. Techs only. No BS. Independent Wrench Jobs: https://www.skool.com/independentwrenchjobs Finding Technicians Part 1- Chris Lawson [RR 803]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/e803/
      Finding Technicians Part 2 – Chris Lawson [RR 816]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/e816/
      Technician Attraction Blueprint [RR 921]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/e921/
      Attract, Develop, and Retain Top Automotive Talent [CC 113]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/cc113/
      Beyond Babysitters: Developing Strong Managers and Financial Transparency [RR 1076]: https://remarkableresults.biz/remarkable-results-radio-podcast/e1076/
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS
      Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care
      NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/
      Connect with the Podcast:
      Visit the Website: https://remarkableresults.biz/
      Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto
      Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/
      Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club: https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmasters Join Our Private Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976 Join our Insider List: https://remarkableresults.biz/insider All books mentioned on our podcasts: https://remarkableresults.biz/books Our Classroom page for personal or team learning: https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom Special episode collections: https://remarkableresults.biz/collections Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm   The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcast with Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion. https://remarkableresults.biz/ Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z with Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life. https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ Business by the Numbers with Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest. https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/ The Auto Repair Marketing Podcast with Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level. https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/ The Weekly Blitz with Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching. https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/ Speak Up! Effective Communication with Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size. https://craigoneill.captivate.fm                                          Click to go to the Podcast on Remarkable Results Radio
    • Joe Marconi
      Why You, an Auto Shop Owner, Should Consider Coaching
      By Joe Marconi

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • Riccardo
      If you had to step away from your shop for 30 days tomorrow, would your business continue operating successfully without you?
      By Riccardo

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • carmcapriotto
      Is Your Shop the Problem? Hard Truths from the Voice of the Technician Survey Results [RR 1084]
      By carmcapriotto
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Watch Full Video Episode Host Carm Capriotto speaks with Jay Goninen, co-founder and president of WrenchWay, about insights from the 2026 Voice of the Technician Survey and what it reveals about the state of the automotive workforce.
      Jay encourages shop owners to download the free report to uncover blind spots and start meaningful conversations with their teams. The data show that technicians strongly prefer a four-day, 10-hour workweek with no weekends, along with proper equipment, paid vacation, retirement benefits, and paid training.
      While dealership technicians made up a larger share of respondents, independents stood out in workplace culture. 63% of independent technicians would recommend their shop to a friend, compared to 36% at dealerships, though dealerships scored higher in providing paid training. Across both groups, technicians favor an hourly wage plus bonus structure, which many feel better supports diagnosticians than traditional flat-rate systems.
      The discussion also highlights a troubling trend: the industry’s Net Promoter Score dropped to -60 in 2026, signaling that many technicians would not recommend the profession to others.
      To strengthen the talent pipeline, Jay discusses ASE Connects, a new initiative aimed at connecting shops with high school and technical school automotive programs to support them through mentorship, advisory roles, and community engagement.
      Carm also advocates elevating the profession by shifting the language from “mechanic” or “technician” to “specialist,” emphasizing the expertise required to work on today’s vehicles.
      Overall, the episode serves as a wake-up call for shop owners to use the survey insights to evaluate their culture, communication, and work environments, and to become employers technicians are proud to recommend.
      https://wrenchway.com/resources/2026-voice-of-technician-survey-report/
      Jay Goninen, Co-Founder and President, WrenchWay
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA Auto Care and NAPA TRACS Learn more about NAPA Auto Care and the benefits of being part of the NAPA family by visiting https://www.napaonline.com/en/auto-care NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Connect with the Podcast: - Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/ - Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club: https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmasters - Join Our Private Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976 - Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto - Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ - Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ - Visit the Website: https://remarkableresults.biz/ - Join our Insider List: https://remarkableresults.biz/insider - All books mentioned on our podcasts: https://remarkableresults.biz/books - Our Classroom page for personal or team learning: https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom - Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm - Special episode collections: https://remarkableresults.biz/collections - The Automotive Repair Podcast Network: https://automotiverepairpodcastnetwork.com/ - Remarkable Results Radio Podcast with Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion. https://remarkableresults.biz/ - Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z with Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life. https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ - Business by the Numbers with Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest. https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/ - The Auto Repair Marketing Podcast with Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level. https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/ - The Weekly Blitz with Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching. https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/ - Speak Up! Effective Communication with Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size. https://craigoneill.captivate.fm                         Click to go to the Podcast on Remarkable Results Radio


  •
    Joe Marconi

    Marketing Strategies To Attract and Retain Your Ideal Customers

    By Joe Marconi, in Automotive Marketing,

    1 comment 7,924 views
    Joe Marconi

    Every shop owner tracks gross sales. But is that really the number you should be focused on?

    By Joe Marconi, in Joe Marconi's Tips and Articles,

    0 comments 1 35 views
    nptrb

    Mid-Year Reset: What Your Auto Shop’s Numbers Are Telling You

    By nptrb, in Automotive Management,

    0 comments 9 views

  • Our Sponsors

Main Sections

More Sections

Discussion Forums

×
×
  • Create New...