Quantcast
Jump to content


Copper nickel brake line


Recommended Posts



Has anyone tried the copper/nickel brake lines. I was always under the assumption that brake fluid absorbed copper, in addition to moisture.

Joe,

I hate to say that we have been using it for years, but I never thought about the brake fluid absorbing copper. I will have to find out about that. As far as using it, we have been very happy with it, it bends easily, flairs nicely and resist rusting.

Russ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Copper Nickle Alloy line has been out for some time now, and it is all I will use at the shop, I don't even stock steel line.

 

- It does not rust

- It is difficult to kink

- It is easy to bend

- It is easier to cut & flare

 

 

It is the one product where there are no negatives, not to mention it is only $4 more a roll through my supplier then traditional steel line.

 

I have never heard of these lines absorbing brake fluid and I have never had one customer complain about break fluid loss. Copper may absorb brake fluid (?) but this is Copper Nickle Alloy, not a standard copper line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

While on the subject of easy to work with lines, and rust resistant lines, another excellent product that is easy for technicians to work with and will not rust again are the SUR&R nylon/plastic Fuel Line kit. It gives you all the common fuel line fittings (but improved design, easy to disconnect, no more disconnect tools) and the appropriate size line and compression fittings to do nylon patches on steel lines (if only a section is rusted out), or to run complete lines from the tank to the engine.

 

It saves a lot of time from having to source OE replacement lines, is safer and more professional then high pressure rubber with high pressure fuel clamps, and it will not degrade like rubber over the years, and it will never rust! I will never run metal fuel lines again, and all of my patches are done with this stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

I prefer steel lines of coarse, however on the other hand I keep a roll o the copper/nickel on had for those tedious jobs with little space to work. Just like we had to fab alot of line on a car the other day and I was easier to use the c/n.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

ATS covered it, all lines are made with copper. The process of rolling the metal into lines is a procedure of wrapping and welding copper and steel and other alloys. Bundy tubes or Bundy pipes, are a type of double-walled low-carbon steel tube manufactured by rolling a copper-coated steel strip through 720 degrees and resistance brazing the overlapped seam in a process called Bundy Welding. It may be zinc- or terne- coated for corrosion protection. It has been used in automotive hydraulic brake lines, for cars manufactured in the USA, since the 1930s.

 

Interestingly a 1969 study by the SAE recommended the replacement of Bundy tube with 90-10 copper-nickel alloy (UNS C70600 or Kunifer pipe) because of the corrosion concerns. The Kunifer pipe concept has since been adopted by European automakers Volvo, Rolls-Royce, Lotus, Aston-Martin, Porsche and Audi. Bundy pipe retains the advantage higher rigidity, which means less volume expansion under pressure.

 

As to Joe's concerns, brake fluid does not absorb copper. Rather it simply is a carrier of copper particulate that is abraded off the lines as the fluid deteriorates. The slipping additives and anti corrosives are the first item to break down in the fluid, based on aggressiveness of the driver and age of vehicle. We have no way of telling when the happens so techs must test with our Copper Test Strips ( www.BrakeTestStrip.com ), they instantly ready the Copper concentration in PPM (parts per million). A copper content of 200 ppm or greater indicates a depletion of corrosion inhibitors in the brake fluid, so reach 200 and you need to flush per MAP's UICS procedures.

 

It is a known fact that brake fluid is designed to protect against corrosion of the system materials it contacts, and that those corrosion inhibitors deplete over time. Additionally, test data shows that this increased presence of copper contamination predetermines the rapid growth of iron contamination and corrosion that has been shown to impede future brake system performance. The valves in ABS pumps just love copper and the platting process that takes place over time is the number one cause of pressure failure.

 

Hope this information helps, it is critical to replace brake fluid before it looses it protective additives. Please let me know if you need brake strips for testing the fluid, we can offer you a special price since you are members of ASO. Note they we just brought out the newest strip, you can now determine the type of brake fluid in the system, 3, 4, 5, or mixes that must be removed and replaced.

 

Thanks for this site Joe and the ability to bring tech info all who are members. Please let me know if anyone has additional questions or comments on this subject.

Gary

1(800) 266-4497

[email protected]

 

 

 

Here is a great article about the addition of Copper, Zinc, Nickel and other alloys used over the years...

 

Worldwide Data On Wear

 

In 1965, 251,000 automobile accidents in the USA involved brake failures. In that same year, at a major meeting of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), the problem of brake loss due to steel tubing damage was identified as both dangerous and costly. By 1969, the SAE published a study, Hydraulic Brake Line Corrosion: An Initial Investigation of the Problem (A.G. Imgram and D.K. Miner, Paper 690530, Mid-Year Meeting, May 1969). Indications were clear: corrosive deterioration of steel brake tubing created maintenance problems and could be a hazard to safety. The report revealed that steel brake tubing was highly erratic after 4-6 years in service. It also identified copper-nickel alloy C70600 tube as outstandingly superior to conventional steel brake line tubing in laboratory salt-spray-exposure burst tests. Copper and four copper alloys also out-performed the double wrapped steel tubing in the tests.

Sweden, with a national program of vehicle inspection since the mid 1960s, has been a consistent source of the most accurate data on the problem. The Swedes frequently ban vehicles from the road due to badly corroded steel brake tubing. As in the USA, roads in Sweden during the winter are salted for snow and ice removal.

In spite of corrosion-retarding coatings that are applied in accordance with specifications requiring a minimum coating weight per square foot of tubing surface area (not an overall coating thickness), little protection may result in local areas.

Since the 1970s, observed brake tubing faults have diminished with improved coatings. Still, in 1988, over 90,000 Swedish vehicles failed testing due to damaged steel brake tubing, most of which was corrosion related. West Germany, which instituted mandatory vehicle inspections in 1970, has collected data in line with Sweden. Data from the United Kingdom reveal 20% failure rate of brake systems. However, there is no indication of what part of that is attributable to tubing damage.

Fig01.jpgFigure 1. Results of brake tubing inspections of Volvo vehicles with different brake tubing materials.

The Swedish data cover the period during which Volvo upgraded the material it used for brake tubing. Prior to 1971, Volvo had used terne coated steel tubing. In 1971 they changed the coating to zinc. The zinc coating was eventually supplemented by epoxy, and in 1976, Volvo adopted copper-nickel alloy C70600. In Figure 1, the performance of these four materials are compared on the basis of the percentage of observed occurrences of corrosion damage to brake tubing over 12 years of service. Copper-nickel is shown as the most reliable material by far.

Users of copper-nickel brake tubing in addition to Volvo include world-class vehicle manufacturers like Rolls Royce, Lotus, Aston Martin, Porsche and, most recently, Audi. Copper-nickel is also used in military, fire fighting and other heavy vehicles

 

 

Ive been asking my local vendors for years to carry test strips! Now I have a source! Thanks for the great info!

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please send me an email or give us a call on the 800 number and I will be glad to help you get some test strips for your shop. They really are the only way to know exactly when to change brake fluid and eliminate any liability on the shops part, they are the only MAP and BAR approved or endorsed test.

 

We also manufacture test strips for all Radiator fluids, your can check them out at..

 

Additionally our OE Approved FluidRx program tests fluids in transmissions, power steering units, differentials and motor oil right in your shop and in just 1 to 2 minutes.

 

 

Talk to you soon, I look forward to being of assistance.

Gary

 

P.S. Love NC, we have summer cabin on east side of Asheville up near Warren Wilson College.

We're not that far from there, we're in Blowing Rock.

I'll pm you my email tonight!

Thanks for such a great article!

 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 2

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

         5 comments
      I recently spoke with a friend of mine who owns a large general repair shop in the Midwest. His father founded the business in 1975. He was telling me that although he’s busy, he’s also very frustrated. When I probed him more about his frustrations, he said that it’s hard to find qualified technicians. My friend employs four technicians and is looking to hire two more. I then asked him, “How long does a technician last working for you.” He looked puzzled and replied, “I never really thought about that, but I can tell that except for one tech, most technicians don’t last working for me longer than a few years.”
      Judging from personal experience as a shop owner and from what I know about the auto repair industry, I can tell you that other than a few exceptions, the turnover rate for technicians in our industry is too high. This makes me think, do we have a technician shortage or a retention problem? Have we done the best we can over the decades to provide great pay plans, benefits packages, great work environments, and the right culture to ensure that the techs we have stay with us?
      Finding and hiring qualified automotive technicians is not a new phenomenon. This problem has been around for as long as I can remember. While we do need to attract people to our industry and provide the necessary training and mentorship, we also need to focus on retention. Having a revolving door and needing to hire techs every few years or so costs your company money. Big money! And that revolving door may be a sign of an even bigger issue: poor leadership, and poor employee management skills.
      Here’s one more thing to consider, for the most part, technicians don’t leave one job to start a new career, they leave one shop as a technician to become a technician at another shop. The reasons why they leave can be debated, but there is one fact that we cannot deny, people don’t quit the company they work for, they usually leave because of the boss or manager they work for.
      Put yourselves in the shoes of your employees. Do you have a workplace that communicates, “We appreciate you and want you to stay!”
  • Similar Topics

    • By Joe Marconi

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • By carmcapriotto
      The Weekly Blitz is brought to you by our friends over at Shop Marketing Pros. If you want to take your shop to the next level, you need great marketing. Shop Marketing Pros does top-tier marketing for top-tier shops.
      Click here to learn more about Top Tier Marketing by Shop Marketing Pros and schedule a demo:https://shopmarketingpros.com/chris/
      Check out their podcast here: https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/
      If you would like to join their private Facebook group go here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/autorepairmarketingmastermind
      In this podcast episode, Coach Chris Cotton from Auto Fix Auto Shop Coaching highlights the significance of always saying yes to customers in the auto repair industry. He recounts two examples where service advisors faced challenges in agreeing to customer requests. Cotton stresses the importance of customer satisfaction and the delicate balance of agreeing to customer demands without making unrealistic promises.
      Saying Yes to Customers (00:02:36) Importance of prioritizing customer satisfaction and finding ways to say yes instead of no.
      Handling Customer Requests (00:03:45) Addressing an instance where a service advisor struggled to manage customer expectations and deliver on promises.
      Customer Service Skills (00:05:54) Emphasizing the need to take care of the customer, manage expectations, and avoid overpromising while saying yes.
      Saying Yes and Managing Expectations (00:10:11) Discussing the importance of saying yes to customers while managing expectations and not overpromising.
      1. Importance of not saying no to customers in the auto repair business
      2. Instances of a service advisor struggling to say yes to customers
      3. Emphasizing the need to prioritize customer satisfaction
      4.Managing expectations while saying yes to customers
      5.Not overpromising to customers
      Quotes:
      Coach Chris Cotton', '00:06:54', "How would you like it if you were leaving town in 24 hours and somebody said, 'Oh, you can't take your car because we can't finish it up'? It's just not the right place to be in."
      'Coach Chris Cotton', '00:09:14', "The customer doesn't care about any of that; the customer just wants to know if you can help them or not."
      'Coach Chris Cotton', '00:12:16', "If they're in front of you unexpectedly, say yes, smile, and be like, 'Oh, I'm so glad, Mrs. Johnson, that you're here today. I haven't seen you in a while. Absolutely, we'll take care of your crisis for you.'"
       
      Connect with Chris:
       
      [email protected]
      Phone: 940.400.1008
      www.autoshopcoaching.com
      Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/
      AutoFixAutoShopCoachingYoutube: https://bit.ly/3ClX0ae
       
      #autofixautoshopcoaching #autofixbeautofixing #autoshopprofits #autoshopprofit #autoshopprofitsfirst #autoshopleadership #autoshopmanagement #autorepairshopcoaching #autorepairshopconsulting #autorepairshoptraining #autorepairshop #autorepair #serviceadvisor #serviceadvisorefficiency #autorepairshopmarketing #theweeklyblitz #autofix #shopmarketingpros #autofixautoshopcoachingbook
      Click to go to the Podcast on Remarkable Results Radio
    • By Joe Marconi

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • By Transmission Repair

      Premium Member Content 

      This content is hidden to guests, one of the benefits of a paid membership. Please login or register to view this content.

    • By Changing The Industry
      Jimmy Lea of The Institute Tried To Stop This Dumpster Fire


  • Our Sponsors

×
×
  • Create New...