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Posted

We currently use Alldata for our labor guide. However, we also have access to Identifx which has Motor labor information. Lately we have discovered some large discrepencies between the labor times. For example the labor to do a head gasket on a 2001 Chrysler Sebring 3.0 is 6.9 in Alldata and 9.9 in Identifix (or something close to that). The later seems to be closest to the actual. I could site other similar examples. Does anyone know which is most accurate? Advice?

Posted

We struggle with labor times on a daily basis. We compare Mitchell and Alldata all the time. The other day we sold an oil pan on a Chrysler Mini Van. The service advisor used the Mitchell time, 1.4hr. When I saw that, I nearly screamed!

 

This is a real problem. The tech was also doing an exhaust (cat-back) on the same car and the labor time for that was 1.3hr.

 

There is no consistency with time. Maybe we are approaching it all wrong. I try to teach my staff to take into consideration the complexity of the job. For example: An hour of brain surgery is worth more than an hour of racking leaves, right?

 

What it comes down to is that you need to be competitive where you need to be, and charge a premium for those more hi-tech jobs. You need to use good judgment too. We give too much away as it is. It’s a delicate balancing act.

 

Agree? Thoughts?

Posted (edited)
We struggle with labor times on a daily basis. We compare Mitchell and Alldata all the time. The other day we sold an oil pan on a Chrysler Mini Van. The service advisor used the Mitchell time, 1.4hr. When I saw that, I nearly screamed!

 

This is a real problem. The tech was also doing an exhaust (cat-back) on the same car and the labor time for that was 1.3hr.

 

There is no consistency with time. Maybe we are approaching it all wrong. I try to teach my staff to take into consideration the complexity of the job. For example: An hour of brain surgery is worth more than an hour of racking leaves, right?

 

What it comes down to is that you need to be competitive where you need to be, and charge a premium for those more hi-tech jobs. You need to use good judgment too. We give too much away as it is. It’s a delicate balancing act.

 

Agree? Thoughts?

 

There are repairs that if one is experienced they know that the labor time is incorrect and should be compensated for. When you are a non-tech like myself that is not the case. I can only try to learn and remember which repairs take longer and also consult with my techs when in doubt and this helps. Some things can only be known by experience. All sorts of things such as the complexity of the vehicle, age, corrosion, etc. can change things. Yesterday was a bad day because we got our lunch ate on the labor times on two different repairs. All in all I would say we shorted ourselves about 6 hours of labor time. That is over $400. Ouch! I think as much as possible on unfamiliar repairs in the future I will check both guides where possible. For example a rear axle seal/bearing on a 2000 Suzuki Grand Vitara calls for 1.3 hours in Alldata and 2.7 hours in Motor.

 

You are right that an hour of brain surgery is worth more than an hour of raking leaves. Most shops don't like doing heater cores or evaporators so when we do one would try makes sure we charge enough labor.

Edited by xrac
Posted

You know, not being a tech can be an advantage. I have two service advisors, the one who was a former tech has a tough time with billing labor hours. The other advisor, who was never a tech, bills more labor hours.

 

In the end a job is worth what a job is worth. Labor hours must exceed pay hours, or we will not be in business long. The book can hurt us in our wallet!

 

Do you track tech productivity?

Posted
You know, not being a tech can be an advantage. I have two service advisors, the one who was a former tech has a tough time with billing labor hours. The other advisor, who was never a tech, bills more labor hours.

 

In the end a job is worth what a job is worth. Labor hours must exceed pay hours, or we will not be in business long. The book can hurt us in our wallet!

 

Do you track tech productivity?

 

No do you?

Posted

Yes, I track tech productivity and shop productivity. It's one of the key numbers I look at each week.

 

If your labor rate is $100.00 per hour and your shop productivity rate is at 60%, you actual labor rate per hour is only $60.00

 

My tech bonus plan is based on their productivity.

 

At $100.00 per hour, an increase of just one hour per day will increase your income by $500.00 per week for a 5 day work week.

 

Increasing productivity is the best way to increase sales dollars without increasing car counts or raising prices.

  • 5 months later...
Posted

Newspaper Columnist Tackles Book Rate vs. Actual Time Complaint

 

Book Time...

 

XRAC, do you enjoy getting my blood pressure to a boil? I think that labor charge has to be a mistake. But, why are we always defending ourselves. This is a free market and still America (isn't it?). We are free to charge what we want and the consumer is free to shop where they want.

 

I repsonded to the article, here's what I wrote:

 

 

"I am a auto repair shop owner for nearly 30 years and I can tell you that the consumer is getting a fair deal with what we charge. First of all why a shop would accept the customer's parts is a problem to begin with. We never do that! You don't bring your eggs to the diner and tell them to cook them for you, do you?

 

What Elliot does not realize is all the coutless hours we spend on repairing cars that we do not bill the customer because we gave the customer a price and we are honest enough to stand behind our ethics.

 

Hey somone out there in media land...try writing something nice about us for a change. WE KEEP AMERICA ROLLING, DON'T FORGET THAT!"

Posted

Sorry Joe! :rolleyes: It seems that all our industry receives is bad press. Most of the journalists don't have a clue about anything mechanical and it is popular with the media for them to pick on us. They sometimes make things which we think are good practice like machining brake rotors sound like a rip off. However, it does sounds like the shop told the guy they would charge book time and then they may have inflated it.

Posted

Sorry Joe! :rolleyes: It seems that all our industry receives is bad press. Most of the journalists don't have a clue about anything mechanical and it is popular with the media for them to pick on us. They sometimes make things which we think are good practice like machining brake rotors sound like a rip off. However, it does sounds like the shop told the guy they would charge book time and then they may have inflated it.

 

I agree with you. That particular price is a bit too high. I would want to hear the shop's reasoning for that price. Was it a computer matrix error, or maybe they bumped up the price because the owner supplied his own parts? Or maybe just a stupid mistake?

 

The other issue that bothers me is when people listen to a journalist, like he his some "expert", just because he wrote an article. People don't realize that a writer's opinion is often slanted. That's human nature. And, on top of that, the writer wants to excite the audience.

 

I need to say it again...Hey, media people.... write something nice about us, just once!

Posted

The journalists that I have know are not people I am especially impressed with as a rule. The few times I have given interviews it has been amazing how much stuff is not reported correctly. Yet, these people with their biases, incompetences, and political leanings to a great deal determine public perception about our profession.

 

I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to pursue journalism as a career. There is very little money to be made being a journalist unless one rises to the upper ends of the profession. My observation is that it is a profession that attracts idealistic people who are good with words but sometimes not much else. The newspaper journalists are certainly going to be a dying breed because a lot of newspapers are going to go out of business due to internet competition.

Posted

The journalists that I have know are not people I am especially impressed with as a rule. The few times I have given interviews it has been amazing how much stuff is not reported correctly. Yet, these people with their biases, incompetences, and political leanings to a great deal determine public perception about our profession.

 

I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to pursue journalism as a career. There is very little money to be made being a journalist unless one rises to the upper ends of the profession. My observation is that it is a profession that attracts idealistic people who are good with words but sometimes not much else. The newspaper journalists are certainly going to be a dying breed because a lot of newspapers are going to go out of business due to internet competition.

are we talking about journalist's or presidents?..............(sorry)........

Posted

I think people who are in a position to influence others have a responsibility to report the truth, not just give opnion. If it's an opinion, then they should state that. Freedom of speech is one thing, sensationalism is another.

Posted

We currently use Alldata for our labor guide. However, we also have access to Identifx which has Motor labor information. Lately we have discovered some large discrepencies between the labor times. For example the labor to do a head gasket on a 2001 Chrysler Sebring 3.0 in 6.9 in Alldata and 9.9 in Identifix (or something close to that). The later seems to be closest to the actual. I could site other similar examples. Does anyone know which is most accurate? Advice?

 

Not to be harsh, but read your thread title, Labor GUIDES. They are just that, no one anywhere tells you you must charge only that amount of time. You can adjust the time you charge as you see fit. If you adjust up and become uncompetitive you will cease to exist. If you stick to a time you know is too low often enough, you will cease to exist. I have and use Real Time Labor Guide and will often compare times. Depending on the situation, how busy I am and who the customer is, I will mark up to the higher time. I also have the benefit/curse of being a one man show so I write the RO's and do the work so I am keenly aware of how long it should take.

 

Live by the book, DIE BY THE BOOK.

Posted

Not to be harsh, but read your thread title, Labor GUIDES. They are just that, no one anywhere tells you you must charge only that amount of time. You can adjust the time you charge as you see fit. If you adjust up and become uncompetitive you will cease to exist. If you stick to a time you know is too low often enough, you will cease to exist. I have and use Real Time Labor Guide and will often compare times. Depending on the situation, how busy I am and who the customer is, I will mark up to the higher time. I also have the benefit/curse of being a one man show so I write the RO's and do the work so I am keenly aware of how long it should take.

 

Live by the book, DIE BY THE BOOK.

 

It is true what you say. Labor guide is a guide, not the auto bible sent down from heaven. It is a delicate balance between being competitive and being profitable.

Posted

We currently use Alldata for our labor guide. However, we also have access to Identifx which has Motor labor information. Lately we have discovered some large discrepencies between the labor times. For example the labor to do a head gasket on a 2001 Chrysler Sebring 3.0 is 6.9 in Alldata and 9.9 in Identifix (or something close to that). The later seems to be closest to the actual. I could site other similar examples. Does anyone know which is most accurate? Advice?

We use alldata as our labor guide also. I've noticed several repairs that seem to be out of line. We looked at both Mitchell and Alldata when we first opened and went with alldata. We will be looking at diferent labor guides in the future

Posted

We use alldata as our labor guide also. I've noticed several repairs that seem to be out of line. We looked at both Mitchell and Alldata when we first opened and went with alldata. We will be looking at diferent labor guides in the future

 

I've used all sorts of labor guides in the past. Alldata, Mitchell, Motor...etc.. etc.. The one that I have been using for the past couple of years is from a company out of Florida. It's called "Real-time Labor Guide" it's a pretty simple setup but whats nice is that if you find something that isn't correct... you call them.. tell them... they'll listen ... they'll make the changes and also give you a credit towards your next up date.

 

The only time I have any hassle is with the extended warranty companies... they perfer Mitchell... I tell them,"Hey, do what ya want, the bottom line is I'm charging what I feel it's worth and if the company isn't paying for it... somebody will." (Mitchell's labor always seemed a little light to me.)

Posted

I've used all sorts of labor guides in the past. Alldata, Mitchell, Motor...etc.. etc.. The one that I have been using for the past couple of years is from a company out of Florida. It's called "Real-time Labor Guide" it's a pretty simple setup but whats nice is that if you find something that isn't correct... you call them.. tell them... they'll listen ... they'll make the changes and also give you a credit towards your next up date.

 

The only time I have any hassle is with the extended warranty companies... they perfer Mitchell... I tell them,"Hey, do what ya want, the bottom line is I'm charging what I feel it's worth and if the company isn't paying for it... somebody will." (Mitchell's labor always seemed a little light to me.)

 

We take the same approach with extended warranty companies. We always inform the customer from the start that the warranty company may not pay the entire bill, and any additional charges must be paid by the customer before the car is released.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

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      It always amazes me when I hear about a technician who quits one repair shop to go work at another shop for less money. I know you have heard of this too, and you’ve probably asked yourself, “Can this be true? And Why?” The answer rests within the culture of the company. More specifically, the boss, manager, or a toxic work environment literally pushed the technician out the door.
      While money and benefits tend to attract people to a company, it won’t keep them there. When a technician begins to look over the fence for greener grass, that is usually a sign that something is wrong within the workplace. It also means that his or her heart is probably already gone. If the issue is not resolved, no amount of money will keep that technician for the long term. The heart is always the first to leave. The last thing that leaves is the technician’s toolbox.
      Shop owners: Focus more on employee retention than acquisition. This is not to say that you should not be constantly recruiting. You should. What it does means is that once you hire someone, your job isn’t over, that’s when it begins. Get to know your technicians. Build strong relationships. Have frequent one-on-ones. Engage in meaningful conversation. Find what truly motivates your technicians. You may be surprised that while money is a motivator, it’s usually not the prime motivator.
      One last thing; the cost of technician turnover can be financially devastating. It also affects shop morale. Do all you can to create a workplace where technicians feel they are respected, recognized, and know that their work contributes to the overall success of the company. This will lead to improved morale and team spirit. Remember, when you see a technician’s toolbox rolling out of the bay on its way to another shop, the heart was most likely gone long before that.
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    • By carmcapriotto
      Thanks to our Partners, NAPA TRACS, and Today's Class Discover how to harness AI tools effectively in business with two experts from Optimize Digital Marketing. They share practical tips on using AI to streamline operations, generate creative marketing ideas, optimize SEO, and improve customer interactions—all while maintaining a personal touch. Learn how to balance AI’s efficiency with human creativity and judgment, avoid pitfalls like bias and plagiarism, and make AI work for you without losing authenticity. Doug Robison, Director of Sales and Partnership, Optimize Digital Marketing  Jordan Greene, Director of Product and Partner, Optimize Digital Marketing  Show Notes Watch Full Video Episode Discussion on AI (00:00:00) "Add You to It" Concept (00:02:13) Cautions with AI Use (00:03:56) AI in Customer Interactions (00:05:08) Risks of AI Responses (00:06:18) Personalization in AI Responses (00:07:29) AI's Evolution (00:08:26) AI's Historical Context (00:09:23) Logistical Challenges of AI (00:12:09) AI in Automotive Industry (00:13:11) AI's Role in Marketing (00:14:01) Best Practices for Using AI (00:15:51) Emotional Tone in AI Prompts (00:16:49) Adapting AI for Different Roles (00:17:16) Gemini AI and Source Validation (00:19:59) Caution with AI Outputs (00:21:08) AI's Role in Enhancing Efficiency (00:22:05) Plagiarism Concerns in AI Usage (00:23:00) SEO and AI Integration (00:26:07) Human Oversight in AI Use (00:29:09) Veterinary Analogy in Customer Relations (00:34:29) The Importance of Charging Appropriately (00:34:52) AI as a Virtual Assistant (00:36:10) Utilizing AI for Problem-Solving (00:37:25) AI in Education (00:37:51) Enhancing Communication with AI (00:39:07) Efficiency Through AI (00:39:38)
      Thanks to our Partner, NAPA TRACS NAPA TRACS will move your shop into the SMS fast lane with onsite training and six days a week of support and local representation. Find NAPA TRACS on the Web at http://napatracs.com/ Thanks to our Partner, Today's Class Optimize training with Today's Class: In just 5 minutes daily, boost knowledge retention and improve team performance. Find Today's Class on the web at https://www.todaysclass.com/ Connect with the Podcast: -The Aftermarket Radio Network: https://aftermarketradionetwork.com -Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RemarkableResultsRadioPodcast/ -Join Our Private Facebook Community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1734687266778976 -Join Our Virtual Toastmasters Club: https://remarkableresults.biz/toastmasters -Subscribe on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/carmcapriotto -Follow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carmcapriotto/ -Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/remarkableresultsradiopodcast/ -Follow on X: https://twitter.com/RResultsBiz -Visit the Website: https://remarkableresults.biz/ -Join our Insider List: https://remarkableresults.biz/insider -All books mentioned on our podcasts: https://remarkableresults.biz/books -Our Classroom page for personal or team learning: https://remarkableresults.biz/classroom -Buy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/carm -Special episode collections: https://remarkableresults.biz/collections The Aftermarket Radio Network: https://aftermarketradionetwork.com/ Remarkable Results Radio Podcast with Carm Capriotto: Advancing the Aftermarket by Facilitating Wisdom Through Story Telling and Open Discussion. https://remarkableresults.biz/ Diagnosing the Aftermarket A to Z with Matt Fanslow: From Diagnostics to Metallica and Mental Health, Matt Fanslow is Lifting the Hood on Life. https://mattfanslow.captivate.fm/ Business by the Numbers with Hunt Demarest: Understand the Numbers of Your Business with CPA Hunt Demarest. https://huntdemarest.captivate.fm/ The Auto Repair Marketing Podcast with Kim and Brian Walker: Marketing Experts Brian & Kim Walker Work with Shop Owners to Take it to the Next Level. https://autorepairmarketing.captivate.fm/ The Weekly Blitz with Chris Cotton: Weekly Inspiration with Business Coach Chris Cotton from AutoFix - Auto Shop Coaching. https://chriscotton.captivate.fm/ Speak Up! Effective Communication with Craig O'Neill: Develop Interpersonal and Professional Communication Skills when Speaking to Audiences of Any Size. https://craigoneill.captivate.fm/
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