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Posted

Anyone else experiencing a high number of new part fails? We have fails across the board, sensors, window motors, electrical (starter, alternator) and untold number of squeaky brakes. We use ceramic almost exclusively unless it's a cost factor for customers, do new rotors 98% of the time and it doesn't matter which vendor I purchase from - I get a large number of complaints from customers that the brakes are squeaking sometimes in as little as 1 month.?!?!?

Brakes are installed properly and greased appropriately.

 

Some weeks we feel like all were are working on are re-dos.

 

In the past, we haven't charged customer for part failures. It's not our fault, but it's certainly not theirs. Big labor jobs would get a labor claim sent into vendor. We hardly ever see anything close to full reimbursement if we see anything at all.

 

After the last few months, partner I decided customers need to pay labor at 50% reduced rate. Again, not their fault - but not ours either. We can't keep doing this without getting paid something for our time. Thinking of adding disclaimer on invoice stating this policy.

We feel for the customer, but we can't keep doing them for nothing with such a high rate of failures.

 

Just wondering if anyone else is running into this problem and how you are handling it?

 

 

 

 

Posted

no offense but i would find another shop to do my repairs if i was billed for you not finding me good parts, you said it yourself, you use ceramic unless its a cost factor....

 

What brand? And you find 98% of the brake rotors are below spec or will be after resurfacing? Thats ALLOT.

 

What brand of brake pads do you use?

 

We use Centric and almost never have them come back on us. In Houston, we have high humidity that will literally rust the rotors overnight which will cause squeaking once or twice when first start driving. Its no cause for replacement. Other than that i cant remember the last brake job that came back. I would suspect your brake lathe being an issue but it doesnt sound like it gets much use, lol.

  • Like 1
Posted

You need to have a conversation with your vendor. There are plenty of good aftermarket brake pads, but your gonna have to pay the price for them. Like Imcca said, if I was your customer and you wanted to charge me for a parts failure within whatever your warranty period is, I would be looking for a new shop to take care of my vehicles. We are a NAPA AutoCare shop and we use mostly NAPA premium parts. We see an occasional part failure(mostly rotating electrical or steering racks) that we will submit labor claims on, but no brake issues. We do use the Adaptive One brake pads on almost all our brake jobs. We do a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty on all repairs and have almost zero warranty issues.

  • Like 3
Posted

You also need to take a look at the brake work your techs are doing. One of the biggest no no's I've seen is pad ends being ground down to fit in the brackets and abutment hardware, even by well know shops. I assume you're in a salt zone as I am and one of the problems I see on a daily basis is rust buildup behind the hardware which starts to pinch the pads and sticks them in the brackets. Hardware needs to be removed and all rust cleaned off the brackets. I have several methods but my favorite is to use the sand blast cabinet. Once the rust is gone I treat that surface, grease it and install new hardware and then the pads will fit perfect, not too tight and not too loose. I assume you're greasing the pad ends and or abutment hardware, glide pins as well as the caliper piston end and opposite side contact areas. In the four years I've owned my shop I have never had a brake job come back for squealing, and I do a crap ton of brake work.

 

 

  • Like 3
Posted

We almost exclusively use after market brake pads and our comebacks for brake work are less than 5%. I agree with others that you have to find a good brand and also make sure technicians are doing proper brake repairs.

Posted

We almost exclusively use after market brake pads and our comebacks for brake work are less than 5%. I agree with others that you have to find a good brand and also make sure technicians are doing proper brake repairs.

 

us too, we never use OE and have great success.

Posted

You also need to take a look at the brake work your techs are doing. One of the biggest no no's I've seen is pad ends being ground down to fit in the brackets and abutment hardware, even by well know shops. I assume you're in a salt zone as I am and one of the problems I see on a daily basis is rust buildup behind the hardware which starts to pinch the pads and sticks them in the brackets. Hardware needs to be removed and all rust cleaned off the brackets. I have several methods but my favorite is to use the sand blast cabinet. Once the rust is gone I treat that surface, grease it and install new hardware and then the pads will fit perfect, not too tight and not too loose. I assume you're greasing the pad ends and or abutment hardware, glide pins as well as the caliper piston end and opposite side contact areas. In the four years I've owned my shop I have never had a brake job come back for squealing, and I do a crap ton of brake work.

 

 

 

Scotty hit the nail on the head. If you are having that kind return rate your techs are not doing the job right. Brake rotors need to be replaced or machined on every job, piston travel checked, and if you can't move the pads in the brackets with pinky pressure there is something wrong. Pads should never be ground down, if they stick its a bracket problem. Every brake job should be test driven. If you are using any decent brand aftermarket pad you will be ok. Most warehouses carry a cheap rotor/pad line avoid it. Using brands like Wagner, Textar, Akebono, Jurid, Centric, Sebro ect will net you great performance. Remember even the most basic brake job is at least 40 mins or more for a top tech. That's why the labor guide gives you an hour an a half or better for most jobs. If techs are doing jobs in 20 mins they are not doing the job.

Posted (edited)

My only comment on the brake pad issue is that some pads do have excessive epoxy on the end that needs to be cleaned. We bead blast every bracket that will come off and clean the others to bar metal if possible. Still get the ocassional pad you'll need to take a razor knife or grinder to knock the epoxy off for a clean fit.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Edited by ncautoshop
  • 3 months later...
Posted

Here too...We use mostly aftermarket parts across the board and have a fairly low part failure. on top of that we make sure that who ever our main vendors are pay the complete labor dollars that we charge to the customer. for instance....if we replace a wheel bearing for $275 labor price...we make sure I vendor credits us for the part and pays the full $275 in labor cost.

We who run our independent repair shops have only our reputation....so IF we have parts failure comeback, we pay for a rental, give free oil changes for inconveniences and so on..that can easily cost more than the $65-$100 labor rate... so we say, if the vendor CANT pay a $200-$300 labor claim once every 2-4 months...tell them you will find a parts vendor that will gladly pay those labor claims to get your $40k to $75k or whatever it is you spend with them. that's what we do....

 

That's just my opinion.

  • Like 1
Posted

Here too...We use mostly aftermarket parts across the board and have a fairly low part failure. on top of that we make sure that who ever our main vendors are pay the complete labor dollars that we charge to the customer. for instance....if we replace a wheel bearing for $275 labor price...we make sure I vendor credits us for the part and pays the full $275 in labor cost.

We who run our independent repair shops have only our reputation....so IF we have parts failure comeback, we pay for a rental, give free oil changes for inconveniences and so on..that can easily cost more than the $65-$100 labor rate... so we say, if the vendor CANT pay a $200-$300 labor claim once every 2-4 months...tell them you will find a parts vendor that will gladly pay those labor claims to get your $40k to $75k or whatever it is you spend with them. that's what we do....

 

That's just my opinion.

 

 

I wish that were the case around me. I do not believe any part vendors offer to pay ANY warranty on labor at all which is sad when I pay over $7000 in parts weekly on average.

Posted (edited)

 

 

I wish that were the case around me. I do not believe any part vendors offer to pay ANY warranty on labor at all which is sad when I pay over $7000 in parts weekly on average.

please understand...no one here in Michigan Offers that to us, we tell them...if they want our business that's the way it has to be....

Im sure there is a vendor near you that would LOVE your $30,000 a month. minus a few labor claims a year....Im just saying.

Edited by NorthernMike
Posted

you would be surprised. I have 2 options for my go to parts which is Northside Imports and WorldPac. Both give me nothing. WorldPac starting giving me SOME freebies but to get them to agree to any type of warranty claim payouts would be a dream. They won't even fix my delivery route. I am in between 2 warehouses and 1 of them is about a 15 minute drive. I explain to them that they are losing out on 20k in sales a month. Falls on def ears.

Posted

you would be surprised. I have 2 options for my go to parts which is Northside Imports and WorldPac. Both give me nothing. WorldPac starting giving me SOME freebies but to get them to agree to any type of warranty claim payouts would be a dream. They won't even fix my delivery route. I am in between 2 warehouses and 1 of them is about a 15 minute drive. I explain to them that they are losing out on 20k in sales a month. Falls on def ears.

I guess being mostly German cars you are at a disadvantage for parts...I didn't think about that.

 

On a different note. how do you like worldpac. we are thinking about using them for our import parts. are they reasonably priced.....I will tell they seem as if they could care less if we sign up with them or not.

Posted

I guess being mostly German cars you are at a disadvantage for parts...I didn't think about that.

 

On a different note. how do you like worldpac. we are thinking about using them for our import parts. are they reasonably priced.....I will tell they seem as if they could care less if we sign up with them or not.

 

 

They definitely value you us as customers however there arent very many freebies from them even though they are the biggest importer of european parts. I would say if you have a warehouse that can actually perform daily deliveries its definitely a good supplier to have. They have a lot of OE parts that are hard to come by. If you need to have parts shipped to you I would look into SSF based in california or Northside Imports

Posted

 

 

They definitely value you us as customers however there arent very many freebies from them even though they are the biggest importer of european parts. I would say if you have a warehouse that can actually perform daily deliveries its definitely a good supplier to have. They have a lot of OE parts that are hard to come by. If you need to have parts shipped to you I would look into SSF based in california or Northside Imports

 

Do you use SSF at all?

Posted

 

Do you use SSF at all?

i have an account with them with the intention of giving them some business. However them being on the West coast and me on the east it becomes hard with the shipping charges and such. Nice looking site and lots of inventory. I like the ethos of the company as well, seems like they are much more customer centric

Posted

All of the chain stores here pay labor up to a reasonable amount. I buy a lot from a regional supplier that does not offer labor claims.

 

It use to be the part markup was the built in labor claim. As the industry has gotten more expensive, the part markup fund gets reallocated to other costs.

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  • Have you checked out Joe's Latest Blog?

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      The Technician Shortage Is Our Fault, And It's Time We Own It
      Nearly every day, I hear shop owners complain: "There's a technician shortage. We can't find qualified people. There's no one out there." If that's true, then who's to blame?
      The industry? The schools? The government? I don't know how you feel, but who promised us an endless supply of qualified technicians?
      Another common complaint is that young people do not want to work in the trades. Well, if that were true, then why are other trades such as HVAC, electrical, and plumbing growing? What are they doing that the automotive industry is not? 
      Here's the reality we need to face: We do have a problem, but we shouldn't look for someone or any entity to rescue us. Not the government. Not the trade schools. Not the recruiting companies. No one owes us a workforce. If we want great people in our industry, it's up to us. At some point, we need to own up to the truth: Building a pipeline of qualified technicians is our responsibility.
      In this blog article, I will break down the key reasons we are in this situation today and what we, as an industry, can do to solve the technician shortage. Are you ready to look in the mirror?
      Have We Pushed Technicians Away?
      Let's take a look at flat-rate pay. True flat rate, which pays a technician only for the hours they produce, is a controversial pay plan that emphasizes high production levels and creates a competitive work environment that, if not properly controlled, can lead to increased mistakes and a decline in morale and team spirit. Additionally, the stress and physical demands placed on technicians as they age are not favorable to long-term employee retention. What do we do with technicians as they grow older into their fifties and begin to slow down? 
      I have heard all the arguments and pros and cons of flat-rate pay, and I am not going to judge any pay plan. Let the facts speak for themselves. True flat rate has changed in most areas around the country and has evolved into a pay plan that gives technicians some pay guarantee.
      Many shop owners have learned that team morale, along with the opportunity to earn income, is important to technicians and to the company's long-term success. But let me ask you: how many technicians have left or been pushed out over the years because of the old flat-rate pay system?
      Another issue is the workplace environment. I remember being grateful to be hired as a young technician at a local repair shop. While very thankful, the work environment was not ideal. The shop owner kept the bay doors open year-round (I am from New York) unless it rained or snowed. He felt that if the bay doors were closed, customers might think we were closed for business. We had no heat and no hot water. Many of the jobs were done outside, year-round,  in all types of weather. The starting pay was minimum wage, with no benefits, sick days, or vacation pay. 
      Now, again, I need to point out that I was truly grateful for the opportunity this shop owner gave me. I learned a lot working there, and the experience was pivotal in my career. But looking back, I wonder how many people were discouraged by these working conditions?
      While the physical demands of the repair workplace are daunting, perhaps even more critical is the culture. Too many of my generation shop owners preached the mindset of "my way or the highway." We were the business owners, after all. We started our companies, took all the risks, and provided jobs. Why shouldn't we be the ones to set the ground rules our way?   
      Many of us found over the years that the "my way or the highway" mentality was a sure way to isolate employees and make them more likely to look over the fence for greener grass. In other words, it led many technicians to seek employment elsewhere, where they felt they could be appreciated and recognized for their hard work. The issue, however, was that there wasn't much green grass around. Disappointment after disappointment, bouncing from repair to repair shop, eventually led to despair. So, I ask you: were workplace conditions a contributing factor in today's technician shortage?
      Another factor that we are all well aware of is the complexity of the modern automobile. When I started, the work was mostly physical, and you were required to master essentially three vehicle models: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Let's fast-forward to today. The evolution of automotive technology, along with the extensive training and tools required, has outpaced the typical technician's pay compensation, with no clear career path. Again, leading to frustration and insecurity about the future.
      Here is the bottom line: people don't leave their job; they leave their experience. We must do a better job. 
      The News Isn't all Bad; Your Next Steps to Fix the Technician Shortage
      To fix the technician shortage, it will take a combined effort from everyone in the automotive industry, particularly automotive shop owners. Shop owners are in the perfect position to make the greatest impact, not only on their businesses but also on the future automotive workforce.
      First, shop owners must become better leaders and understand that their ultimate success is directly dependent on the people they assemble around them. Any shop owner who mistakenly believes they can build an empire solely on their abilities is destined for serious disappointment. Business owners who think like this will eventually plateau. Without the collective contributions from a team of qualified people, your business will stall; it will not continue to grow.
      Create a workplace that attracts top talent: a clean, professional, well-equipped facility designed to support productivity, teamwork, and a career, not just a job. Build a great reputation in your community by getting involved locally. Become the auto repair shop that people take notice of as "the" place to work.
      Next, shop owners must become more financially knowledgeable. Knowing your numbers and what you need to achieve for a strong bottom-line profit is essential to paying technicians the money they need and deserve. Profit will also allow you to compete with other trade industries by providing a benefits package that has real take-home value and security.
      When it comes to culture, this is where the rubber hits the road. People crave recognition, praise, and a sense of purpose. Despite what you hear, people are not just money-motivated. Once people feel secure in their financial situation, retaining and motivating technicians can only be achieved by connecting with them on an emotional level. You cannot show enough appreciation. Give out praise for a job well done as if your business depended on it, because it does.
      As technicians age, we need to have a place for them. Expecting a 58-year-old to perform like a 35-year-old is unrealistic. We need to be more focused on career pathing. Provide training, skill development, and coaching to develop leaders and mentors within our older workforce. While their bodies may have slowed, the knowledge they have gained is priceless. 
      Our future is dependent on young people entering our industry. We need to give more young people opportunities. Every shop owner across the country should consider hiring an apprentice, then build an apprentice training plan and career path for them. If every shop did this, we could solve the technician shortage within five years. Get involved with the trade schools and high schools in your area. Look into the NAPA Apprenticeship Program. Don't sit on your hands with this one. Do it today.
      Lastly, don't get left behind. Commit to ongoing training for all your employees. Keep up to date with tools and equipment tailored to your business model. Don't try to be all things to all people and all vehicles. Identify your core profile customer and the vehicles they drive, and become an expert on those vehicles and the services you offer.
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