SIGN FOR BROKEN PARTS

[DUFRESNES]

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[Joe Marconi]

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[bantar]

The concise definition that I remember reading was:   "If it breaks during disassembly, then its on you.  If it breaks going back on, then its on me."   Of course, this needs to be wrapped flowery words.

[Transmission Repair]

We are a transmission repair shop.  We don't have a big issue about broken parts, nor have a sign.  The biggest "broken parts problem" for us is oxygen sensors that throw a code AFTER the repair.  This almost always happens on vehicle we have to drop the exhaust on.  O2 sensors like light bulbs; if they get bumped, then POOF they're gone. If we don't drop the exhaust; no problem.  I figured I couldn't make a sign for 100% of my customers for issues that happen to <10% of our customers.  What to do?

I came up with a video on the shop's YouTube channel that fully explains the situation.  When I would tell customers they need oxygen sensors (whether they objected or not) I would send them a link to the video.  Never had a problem since.

Why High Mileage O2 Sensors Fail After Transmission Work

[DUFRESNES]

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[Joe Marconi]

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[Transmission Repair]

18 hours ago, Joe Marconi said:

I understand the problem.  We cannot be responsible for everything, especially things that are not under our control.  A few things: How often does this happen?  Can some of these things be picked up during the initial multipoint inspection (such as chips in the windshield?) and do you know the overall cost you spend per year on these things?  

For example, if your shop pays out $1000 on things you feel you cannot ask the customer to pay for, could you add the $1000 to your cost of doing business?  In other words, if you service 1000 cars per year, could you build into your pricing another $1.00 per car to offset this?  

Work on identifying what you can control and then find a way to help pay for it. Boy, I hope this helps. 

I am not sure about your question on the SW pay? 

 

 

 

Excellent post, Joe.  Many shop owners don't consider factoring in certain costs to every job.  For instance, shop supplies.  Most shops I know have shop supplies as a separate line item in a R.O.  In those cases, many shops track the shop supply account. I just factor it in to what we bill for labor.  Many headaches can be solved by just what you suggest.

[Joe Marconi]

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[Patrickrocks]

For jobs over $1,000 we add a 10% contingency on estimate.  We explain to the customer what it’s for (additional labor for broken bolts, old brittle clips, a seal that was not put on estimate, etc) and that if it’s not needed, it comes off the bill.  
 

We use some of the contingency 20% of the time. If we sell it up front, the customer is usually resigned to the fact that the repair will cost the higher amount and when the job goes smoothly and we don’t need it, we tell them it’s less, and they are ticked pink. 
 

i am also wary of putting up warning signs and the vibe they give off. 
 

just my 2 cents

[JimO]

Most of the jobs we do are already entered in my shop management system as “canned jobs”. When I entered all these canned jobs I added all miscellaneous items such as clips, retainers, conditioning discs, nuts/bolts/washers etc.. onto jobs that would routinely utilize those items. Over the years I have adjusted these canned jobs to include more items or in some cases removed some items. My estimates are done using my shop management program so in most cases the forgotten or overlooked part or a part that commonly fails is included in the estimate. If The part is not used then it is removed from the invoice. The above covers all of the small, incidental items in most cases. If I fail to include a clip or small priced item and add it to the final invoice I very rarely have anyone question it. I always have the option to N/C the item if I think this particular customer will cause a fuss over a low price, unexpected part. Over time you get to know your customer, even first time customers. When I review an involved estimate I always try to verbally inform the customer of the potential need of additional parts or labor based on my past experience. When the unexpected happens and the additional part or labor is costly I call the customer as soon as possible and inform them of the need and cost of the additional part or labor. Letting something like this go until the customer receives the invoice is never a good idea. When we increase the cost of a customer’s invoice because of unexpected issues we need to realize that we are spending the customers money so they deserve to be informed and be brought into the decision of how to proceed. Concerning signs - I find that most people don’t read signs so I don’t post a sign concerning this matter. I suppose if I had a sign and the customer questioned an additional charge I could then point to the sign but that to me would be wrong. Pointing to a sign when a customer is standing in front of you, upset about an up charge will only add fuel to the fire.

 

[Transmission Repair]

3 hours ago, JimO said:

Most of the jobs we do are already entered in my shop management system as “canned jobs”. When I entered all these canned jobs I added all miscellaneous items such as clips, retainers, conditioning discs, nuts/bolts/washers etc.. onto jobs that would routinely utilize those items. Over the years I have adjusted these canned jobs to include more items or in some cases removed some items. My estimates are done using my shop management program so in most cases the forgotten or overlooked part or a part that commonly fails is included in the estimate. If The part is not used then it is removed from the invoice. The above covers all of the small, incidental items in most cases. If I fail to include a clip or small priced item and add it to the final invoice I very rarely have anyone question it. I always have the option to N/C the item if I think this particular customer will cause a fuss over a low price, unexpected part. Over time you get to know your customer, even first time customers. When I review an involved estimate I always try to verbally inform the customer of the potential need of additional parts or labor based on my past experience. When the unexpected happens and the additional part or labor is costly I call the customer as soon as possible and inform them of the need and cost of the additional part or labor. Letting something like this go until the customer receives the invoice is never a good idea. When we increase the cost of a customer’s invoice because of unexpected issues we need to realize that we are spending the customers money so they deserve to be informed and be brought into the decision of how to proceed. Concerning signs - I find that most people don’t read signs so I don’t post a sign concerning this matter. I suppose if I had a sign and the customer questioned an additional charge I could then point to the sign but that to me would be wrong. Pointing to a sign when a customer is standing in front of you, upset about an up charge will only add fuel to the fire.

 

Jim,

Because we are a transmission-only repair shop 90% of our work is repetitive... very repetitive.  There's even stuff that I can almost predict to break.  Like Joe says, I factor stuff that breaks and shop supplies into every canned job; even Brakleen (we use hexane).  Occasionally, we see a new transmission or one we don't have a lot of experience on and the standard factoring is automatically factored in.  I pride myself on my estimates being dead-on accurate.  That's mainly because we don't give written estimates until an RDI. (Remove, Disassemble, & Inspect)  If we find something after the estimate, we eat it.  Once we have the transmission out and apart, it's really hard to miss something.  Actually, in our shop, the word "Estimate" is a misnomer.

[Joe Marconi]

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[Transmission Repair]

33 minutes ago, Joe Marconi said:

Let me add another thought to this conversation.  Every expense, in some way, must be passed on to the customer.  As business owners, we need to factor in all costs of doing business; every can of rust penetrate, every shop rag we use, every wire tie, every nut, bolt, washer, etc. This is how a business operates.

Some states allow a Shop Supplies fee to offset the miscellaneous fees that aren't normally billed on the customer's invoice. Be careful with Shop Supplies and hazmat charges, in some states you can recoup what you spend, but you cannot make a profit on it. 

The bottom line here is truly the bottom line.  Shop owners need to sit down and look at all costs. And then adjust their part and labor margins to ensure that a reasonable net profit is attained. 

Profit is not a dirty word. Profit ensures that shops are providing the very best service and repairs by reinvesting in the best tools and equipment, afford ongoing training, and remain in business to continue to serve their community. Also, profit provides a decent wage for their employees and themselves.

Sorry to go on about this, but it came to mind, and thought it fit into this conversation.  

 

 

Joe, I fully agree with you.  However, how a shop charges for those items is up to the discretion of the owner or manager.  I, personally, never have line items that aren't either parts and labor because I don't like explaining "extra charges".  I chose to charge for those things by factoring it into the labor we charge.  As I've posted before, we charge by the job, not by the hour.  90%+ of our jobs are repetitive canned jobs.  However, when calculating the labor on a new type of transmission or one we don't have canned yet, we use $125/hr. to calculate the price of the job.  We went to $125/hr. "behind the scenes", so to speak.  On the rare occasion somebody would ask our hourly shop labor rate, I would respond with "We don't charge by the hour, we charge by the job."

You have to remember I sold our business in 2015 and I set that labor rate way back in 2013, 9  years ago at the time of this writing.  At the time, I knew we were the highest in our market area for hourly labor charges, but virtually nobody knew it.  Think about it, no consumer knows the price of any transmission work.  You can't price transmission parts at Auto Zone, only complete units.  Nobody walks in with their own parts or rebuild kit.  I feel our situation was rather unique in comparison to the majority of the industry.  We intentionally located in a very affluent area of the Salt Lake Valley where there were virtually no price objections.  I doubt that most shops could do what we did.

[Joe Marconi]

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[James William]

On 3/29/2022 at 12:47 AM, DUFRESNES said:

Does anybody have a sign stating if parts coming off to make a repair are broken, the customer is responsible.  I don't want to make a new sign if someone already has one.  Such as bolts, plastic pieces and windshields that have rock chips and split.  I am not talking about abuse, just warn parts.

I guess it depends from case to case and there shouldn't be any hard and fast rule. For example you may prepare an estimate of a repair order and later while repairing procedure, you discover that some other parts need your attention. This doesn't mean you are going to to the additional repair for free. You have to charge for this and hence you revise the estimates after your customer's approval. 

Moreover, your customers are not easy people to deal with. They do not trust you easily. In worst cases, where customer actually complains that you are responsible for the additional broken part, you can look into the case.

Another case would be that you gave your best and the vehicle looks absolutely fine when your customer leaves your shop. But returns on the same or next day complaining that the part broke off. What should you do here? You again have to look into the case. It may be your customer fault but it could be yours too. In this case, I believe you should just go for free repairing of the particular part. After all, it may give your customers confidence into your shop that you did not try to upsell them. Hence, its your gain ultimately. But, remember, this is a rare case. May happen twice in 6 months. Do not let your customers deceive you! You have to be smart here.