Joe Marconi

I wonder how much of this Bait and Switch goes on with other national chains???? what do you think???

You’re right, I am mad as hell. And why is it that a certain automotive “organization” says that we don’t need a Right to Repair Act. I’m not saying that an act of law is the total answer, but to say that the car makers are in total compliant and not attempting to create a monopoly is false. The entire aftermarket needs to be on the same page with this one.

I'm right with you. I will log this complaint with the NASTF

I will, I'll buy two. It's worth it. I may come by your shop to have you sign one for me. ok?

There must be a conspiracy by the car makers to get customers back to the dealer. Here’s the story: We had a 2004 Saab 9.3 last week with a problem with the wipers; most of the time they would not shut off. We diagnosed a failed wiper switch. The first problem we encountered was that the wiper switch, headlight switch, air bag clock spring, signal switch and key security module are all incorporated within one module that sits just below the steering wheel in the steering column. The labor to R&R is not too bad. I called the dealer and they had the part in stock ($647.00). When the part arrived we installed it and found that the ignition key would not turn. We plugged the old part in and all ok. We called the dealer and he said that it not only needs to be programmed, you need to first access the security ID from Saab to remove the old part and then get the security ID to add the new part. AND, after that you need to go thru a re-learn process to properly get all the modules to work together. I WANTED TO KILL SOMEONE! The car had to go back to the dealer. If this is what the industry is coming too, we definitely need to support the Right to Repair Act. How can a car maker get away with creating a legal monopoly?

Great funny story! This convinced me...I'm ordering the book

Service and program stabilty are key. Crashes are not acceptable. I have to say that I have Mitchell on a network wtih 8 work stations and no problems.

We have the Launch Diagun, its wireless, which is a real nice feature. It's great with Asian, most Euro, not too good with Volvo or Saab. The Snap-On Solis is great with domestic, Asian and fairly good with Euro. The Solis does not do Volvo or Saab that well. The scanner issue is a major problem these days. We are constantly looking at different scan tools. Hopes this helps.

I got to tell, this tops it all!!! I just stopped work to share this with my techs. This is too much. Again, thanks for the laugh!

That's funny! You have a talent of bringing a lighter side to a very tough day. THANKS! Joe

I love the term “False Leaders”, because that’s exactly what that form of advertising is…False. I am in total agreement that this bait and switch hurts the industry. The public cannot see the difference and in many cases the conusmer ends up questioning the honest shops that are upfront with their charges. This has been a lifelong battle for me and I know for all shop owners out there.

We need this dialogue to come together as an industry. As a veteran with more than 35 years in this business I have nothing but the upmost respect for shop owners. These are the people that keep this country moving. We work hard and we sacrifice for the public, sometime, with little to show for it. It may be a dream, but its worthwhile chasing that dream. Great topic, what else is on your mind????????

Yes this is a very stimulating topic. This is what this forum is all about; the free exchange of ideas and opinions. Thank you for initiating it. Now back to the topic. It most certainly is not baiting. I would not resort to that. If you knew me better you would never suggest that. Maybe, I’m not explaining myself correctly. We explain all the expected charges up front. We never, never, Never, NEVER say we offer a free diagnosis or free analysis. We don’t market it that way or advertise it that way. And with regular customers, the issue never comes up. Now, let me try to re-visit this again: A customer arrives at the front counter and says: “My check engine light is on, how much to fix it.” Our upfront policy WAS to tell the customer the analysis charges and sell it. We then explained that after the analysis, we would discuss the repair. The problem with this is that some customers see no value in this because we really do not know what is happening with the car before we do some sort of scan. There is also a fear about the total cost of the job (analysis plus repair). Plus my advisors were spending too much time educating the customers. Most of time they did go for the analysis, but I can tell that some customers had some issues. So we came up with this strategy. If we feel that there is an issue, we offer the customer a complimentary scan to get a direction where we need to go. We fully explain that depending on what we see with the scan you will be looking at “X” amount for the analysis fee. And after the analysis is done, we will discuss the repair. We have an easier time with this stadegy and the customer feels like we are looking out for his best interest. We try to see this from the customer’s point of view. As for you scenario of my customer out of town; this industry is so all over the map, I can be worried about what may happen in that case. We get challenged on procedure every day, because there are no standards. You propose standards, that’s all well and good, but that will take some doing to accomplish, if it is even possible. Does this make better sense?

Let me try again to express myself. I am not suggested we offer a free diagnosis. Nor do I want to follow the path of AAMCO by advertising “We’ll check it for Free”. Nothing is for free, we all know that. My entire business model is predicated on honesty and integrity, not bait and switch. Consider this: How many times has a customer (old or new) come to you with a check engine light and before you rolled the car in the bay you went through an entire presentation on the complexity of the system and all the charges associated with the analysis only to find that the gas cap was loose? Or, what about a customer that is on her way to work and the check engine light comes on, but really can’t leave the car. Tell me none of you ever scanned the car just to give her peace of mind? Here is the concept: Explain to the customer that until we access the error codes, we do not have a direction on what tests we need to perform. Offer to the customer the initial scan with the understanding that after that scan is done, we will explain the necessary steps needed to complete the actual diagnosis. We tell them that this scan is not in any way a diagnosis. We actually give them a price range before hand. I know that there will be those times that the customer will say, thanks for the info and goodbye. But we take that chance every time we try to sell anything. I feel that this approach helps to comfort the customer. My analysis charges are more than the local dealers in my area. They come to me and pay more because of the value and service we offer.

Ok, I hear you all. I knew this would make heads spin. I don't think I am getting my point across. I am not suggesting we give anything away, I am suggesting that we change our approach. I treat all customers as if they just spent thousands. Why? Because if I create a customer, that customer will be worth thousands to me in time. We are a high volume shop (200plus car per week). I get a lot of new customers each day. My sales have up because I learned that in order to keep my bays full I need to see what the customer sees. Their perception is the only reality that matters. Just think of this: I rather spend the time with the customer selling the DIAG work than trying to defend my charges before I even looked at the car. That's it...Simple. I have not given anything away...I have in fact increased my DIAG sales with happier customers.

No, think about it. Let the customer see value first. Let them know you are looking out for their best interest. I have to tell you, my advisors are spending less time defending themselves and more time selling DIAG work. Just think about it. A customer says, "My check Engine Light is on". You tell him that it will be "X" amount to do the analysis. The customer "thinks", you have not even looked at the car yet. All I am saying is that we change our approach. What if it just a loose gas cap, you never checked the car and they go somehere else. That may look bad for you. We now say: “Mrs. Jones the check engine light is on because the vehicles’ on-board computer system has detected a fault. Depending on what the fault is, certain tests are going to be needed to accurately diagnose the problem. Let’s do a quick scan on your car’s computer to see what direction we need to go. After the scan I will explain in detail the tests needed and the cost to do those tests.” I am telling you, we just started with this approach and with great success. We sell just has many analysis jobs, if not more now. And, we have not changed our pricing.

I feel the same what. It would have been nice to have Farve in the Super Bowl. He is a real warrior. I say the Colts by 2 touch downs.

I agree totally. I would have serious issue with that part supplier! But, let me plays devil’s advocate for a minute: We all know that there is no such thing as a "Free Diagnosis". It's either bait or switch type advertising or they are building the DIAG into the price of the job. We do a lot of diagnostic work and get tons of people coming to us for check engine lights and the first thing they ask is…How Much for the Analysis?. For a lot of new customers, it’s always a battle to try to educate them. The time spent is a killer and many say ok, but don't like it. My fear is that we will be perceived as high-priced with all other services and may not have the chance to gain a customer... So, here is what we are doing as an experiment. When a customer now asks what we charge for a check engine we offer them a complimentary scan to see what direction we need to go and what tests are needed to determine the cause the check engine light. So far, we have had NO issues and actually sell the DIAG time after the initial scan. We have maintained our price structure and eliminated the grief. What do you think?????

Oh, boy! I hope my wife does not read this...it sounds like my house!

This goes beyond overselling...this is stealing. Plus, it make us all look bad, that's my fear.

Great work Alex, you will be our Internet "Go To" guy.

I hope the public differentiates this situation from the rest of the honest, hard working independents. This form of marketing from mass merchandisers needs to stop. I hear of these things all the time. I have a tire shop around the corner from me that advertises $59.95 brake jobs. When my customer mentions this to me I simply tell them that I REPAIR $59.95 brake jobs. Let’s hope this is a lesson for national chains. It seems that their business model and code of ethics are not the same as ours.

I have the Snap On Solus, it's a nice tool. You will need to buy different modules for the brands of cars you work on. Another nice scanner we have is the new wirelesss Launch. I do not have any first hand knowledge on the OTC or Mac Mentor.

Gonzo, you hit the nail right on the head! We as independents need to keep the dialogue going. That’s what AutoShopOwner is all about. I thank YOU for your contribution. Understanding the true cost of doing business is precisely the reason why we need to charge for analysis work. The problem is that I don’t think enough shop owners have taken the time and calculated a budget or a have done a CODBA (Cost of doing business analysis). Once you do the math, you know exactly what you need to make per job, per week, per day, per minute. That’s a real eye opener. Then you have the other side of the coin with some national mass merchandisers that offer that phony baloney free analysis. This is a form a marketing that prays on people’s emotion just to get masses of customer through the doors. This problem is complicated and we as independents need to stick together on this one.

It is my mission to make AutoShopOwner the "Go To" online forums to voice your opinions, share war stories, knowledge and ideas. We can make a difference if we learn that collectively we are a powerful coalition. Getting back to Diagnostics charges, I believe that if we don’t stick together and charge a decent price for analysis work, it will greatly affect our ability to reinvest in future technology. My shop has a least 6 scanners (I lost count) and every time I turn around I’m buying an update. When I hear that there are shops that are afraid to charge diagnostic charges or remove the charge if they get the work, it makes me crazy. We are all in the same boat; we don’t work for free and need to earn a profit. We owe to our families, employees and to ourselves.