Gonzo

Won't let me post it any other way? Works on my end...

 

www.digitalliteracyproject.com/2009/02/14/pc-based-equipment-in-mobile-diagnostics/%#comment-19

I read the article... very good article I might add... VERY long winded article.

I have to agree with everything he wrote in his artilce.

I said the same things in my article ... (which is more than likely going to be reproduced in Brake and Front end this month or next) I didn't get as lengthy as he did (LOL)

Myself, I do what this guy does ... but in my own stationary shop. I'm the guy that other shops bring the car to when they can't figure it out. I do 99% electrcial diagnostics and repair. From anything like an automatic sliding door system to the "engine spits and sputters" routine. Seen a lot of weird stuff in my 28 years... and I doubt that I have seen it all.

This business isn't the business I started out in... times have changed. We, as an industry have to change. Charging for the diagnostic time is just the first start in reworking the independent industry.

Maybe.... just maybe... before I'm retired and the wrenches have been put away... we might be able to make a difference in the future of this industry.

Thanx for the article, thanx for being a part of the change. Gonzo

Has anyone seen or read this one?

 

PC Based Equipment in Mobile Diagnostics | Digital Literacy Project

Carman.... link wouldn't work... whats the "www" address

Here is a place to list your ideas on what a Code of Ethics for the independent auto industry should/could/needs to abide by... keep in mind the ethics we are talking about are for anything... and everything that is involved with running a shop. Those already proposed ideas that have been mentioned are;

WAITING ROOM AREAS

BATHROOMS

LOBBY PRESENTATION

DIAGNSOTIC FEE STANDARDS

ADVERTISING HONESTY

And much more... Please take the time to list what you would like to see...

thanx Gonzo

You wouldn't have to ask twice... YES, excellent idea... as a matter of fact... that would be a great new article for me to write.

At this point... I don't know exactly what I would put in there.... BUT... the real issue is... it will not be my idea... it will be the general automotive independent market speaking... that's what I believe would become the true CODE OF ETHICS... So think of a few things, I'll write them down and I'll try to get it published to as many places as I can.

So what would you put in a code of Ethics list? I would love to have one that is pretty universal (agreed upon) that I could post on the wall in my shop.

You wouldn't have to ask twice... YES, excellent idea... as a matter of fact... that would be a great new article for me to write.

The problem with our industry is the lack of consistently from shop to shop. We continue to portray a low image of the auto service business. Just look at the condition a lot shops are and the overall look of the customer reception area. Not to mention the bathrooms in too many shops.

 

If we are to move from the Stone Age we need to clean up our act across the board. No code of ethics will work if we don’t send the right message to the consumer.

That's a great name for it Joe.... Code of Ethics... I like that... In fact I'm talking with "Brake and Front end Magazine" I might have the "Diagnostic fee Diagnostic free" story reprinted in their magazine. We should get a lot of repsonce. If possible I may even mention this website.

I think we need a code of ethics that all shops adhere to. It must be confusing for the public too. You have one shop that resets the light and sends them on their way, while another shop wants to properly diagnose it. It would be nice if we were united, but maybe I just a dreamer.

An across the board standard... yes... I'm for that.... if everyone is one the same page... then it's not so hard for the customer to feel more confident.. then it's just "who" the consumer wants to do the work... not so much the price..

In my book there is a chapter on this subject... page 168... it's not the perfect solution.. but just like the diagnostic article... it's an idea, an opinion... it's thoughts on paper... something for all us to think about. Gonzo

I've read most of the posts on this page, and I have to say.... this is why I wrote "Hey Look, I Found the Loose Nut" We all have experienced these same situations with customers and I've written story after story based on those situations. I call it "therapy" for the tech.. we all need a little down time after a rough day and reading a couple of these stories lets you know... you are not alone. My stress level drops a notch or two after reading a story... I usually walk away with a smile by then.

To bad, there isn't a physcologist on hand at every shop to deal with the aftermath.

I've known techs that were far better than myself, but they either lacked the ability to maintain the dollars and cents side of the business, or more times than not... they couldn't handle the daily situations with the customers.

The latest story I'm working on is one that I'm sure we will all face sooner or later. The story goes something like this;

With the advent of the modern elecrtonic world it's harder and harder to have privacy. I recently had an encounter with a "new" customer that felt it was absolutely neccessary to get in contact with me after hours... She searched the web until she found an obscure listing I posted (probably after too many beers LOL) where I listed my home phone. Here it is, Saturday, 11:30 at night and this lady calls my house and wants me to go to the shop so she can get her kids basketball out of the back seat.

Well, you can see where that story is going to go... that'll be the next book. Gonz

My website isn't as much for my shop but for my book.

It's has a lot of fun stuff to do along with videos, trivia, unbelievable photos... etc...

Trying to lighten things up in the world of Auto repair.

www.gonzostoolbox.com

Great video! I laughed and sighed at the same time. Its funny and disturbing, but I guess the truth is at times.

It reminds me of the stories I write... truth / fiction .... the old saying says it best. Funnier every time..

My way of explaining it .... "Common sense is whats missing.... when common sense goes out the window... Stupid takes its place....Stupid is funny"

That is too much! Thanks for a smile!

Ain't it the truth.... This video reminds me of the stories I write... to funny, but so true... glad ya liked it

How in the world did they do that?

Photo Shop'd

You’re right, I am mad as hell. And why is it that a certain automotive “organization” says that we don’t need a Right to Repair Act. I’m not saying that an act of law is the total answer, but to say that the car makers are in total compliant and not attempting to create a monopoly is false.

 

The entire aftermarket needs to be on the same page with this one.

Your preachin' to the choir Joe, been saying the same thing since the late 80's. Every since the very first time I couldn't check a Ford properly without "the scanner"

Not that we need more laws, but, tell me how else you are going to be able to keep the big boys from keeping all the toys...??? I don't think it would do any good for every independent shop owner to march through down town Detroit or D.C. with a big wrench in thier hands and stand on the steps of thier doors demanding results.

We need several voices in the right places.... I still think this IS a great first step.

There must be a conspiracy by the car makers to get customers back to the dealer.

 

Here’s the story: We had a 2004 Saab 9.3 last week with a problem with the wipers; most of the time they would not shut off. We diagnosed a failed wiper switch. The first problem we encountered was that the wiper switch, headlight switch, air bag clock spring, signal switch and key security module are all incorporated within one module that sits just below the steering wheel in the steering column. The labor to R&R is not too bad.

 

I called the dealer and they had the part in stock ($647.00). When the part arrived we installed it and found that the ignition key would not turn. We plugged the old part in and all ok. We called the dealer and he said that it not only needs to be programmed, you need to first access the security ID from Saab to remove the old part and then get the security ID to add the new part. AND, after that you need to go thru a re-learn process to properly get all the modules to work together.

 

I WANTED TO KILL SOMEONE! The car had to go back to the dealer.

 

If this is what the industry is coming too, we definitely need to support the Right to Repair Act. How can a car maker get away with creating a legal monopoly?

I'm seeing this more and more everyday... I totally hate it. Got one now, 07 PT Cruiser with only one code p1745 .. line pressure to high too long... according to what I can find out about the code is that it's not a fault code but merely a way to tell you that the transmission or components have been changed and that it needs recalibrated... which of course is why the tranny shop brought to me... they installed a trans and couldn't get it to shift... Good Ol' Gonz can get it working.... ah, NOT.. dealer scanner with the correct updates is the only way... Oh, I found a guy with a star scanner he bought off of EBay... it read the code just like my scanner would... but apparently it has the most up to date software in it.... but not the right updates...

So, we can carry this little problem even further.... how about letting the independent market have access to the equipment ... AT A FAIR PRICE... and further more... all the software that goes with it. And... for Pete Sake... inform us when your changing software, scanners, and procedures...

You know I really don't need any help in looking stupid.... but having to explain to a regular customer that I can't service the jobs I used to do.... puts me out of business. .... .... Just like Joe I'M MAD AS HELL! ! Right to Repair... absolutely

I will, I'll buy two. It's worth it. I may come by your shop to have you sign one for me. ok?

Sure no problem, order it from my web site and I can send them out autographed right from my desk... LOL

That is a great story.

So I take it you will like to see more of the same.... got lots of them ... LOL

Pick up a copy, heck, pick up more than one copy and pass them out to anyone you know in the biz... it's a good book to laugh at ourselves and the business we are in. I had a comment left at a post a few months ago .. but the writer didn't give their name... they said "It's amazing how the author caught the technicians view and how funny people look when they are out of their comfort zone." Obviously... the person doesn't have a clue that I'm not only the author... but the tech... LOL

Thanx for reading my story... But I'm sure you can imagine my surprise when I found the ass jolter under that seat... man o man.. what a shocker... LOL

Great funny story!

 

This convinced me...I'm ordering the book

Buy 2 copies Joe, that way when the customer is standing there wondering why you have this silly smirk on your face... just hand them the book... and say "Your in it...LOL"

Enjoy, I'll put another story up next month. Gonzo

If you're in the business you more than likely have run across a few "not - so - level - headed" customers ... so have I. Instead of just standing around the water cooler/toolbox and tell these stories back and forth from one tech to another... I wrote them down.

My book, "HEY LOOK, I FOUND THE LOOSE NUT" was published last year and is now been introduced to the trade magazines. This is the latest one from AUTOBODY NEWS. I'll be doing a monthly column for them, and each month a different story from the book will be published. (the editor chose this story this month... he liked it...)

Each story is different from the last. They cover all aspects of situations that I have encountered over the years. Hysterically funny, and at the same time thought provoking stories.

This story isn't so much about a customer but about a situation we had with a customers car. It really happened, it really was a shock to find out what it was.

You can purchase a copy of my book from Amazon.com, or Gonzostoolbox.com, or Gossgarge.com. Check with your local book store, Borders can get it but not every store will have it in stock.

Great book for those times you only have a few minutes to read, and don't want to sit down for novel. Each story is only a few pages long... long enough for a laugh.

Enjoy the story, if you like it... let me know, I'll send more.... If you have a story let me know....

Yes this is a very stimulating topic. This is what this forum is all about; the free exchange of ideas and opinions. Thank you for initiating it.

 

Now back to the topic. It most certainly is not baiting. I would not resort to that. If you knew me better you would never suggest that.

 

Maybe, I’m not explaining myself correctly. We explain all the expected charges up front. We never, never, Never, NEVER say we offer a free diagnosis or free analysis. We don’t market it that way or advertise it that way. And with regular customers, the issue never comes up.

 

Now, let me try to re-visit this again: A customer arrives at the front counter and says: “My check engine light is on, how much to fix it.” Our upfront policy WAS to tell the customer the analysis charges and sell it. We then explained that after the analysis, we would discuss the repair.

 

The problem with this is that some customers see no value in this because we really do not know what is happening with the car before we do some sort of scan. There is also a fear about the total cost of the job (analysis plus repair). Plus my advisors were spending too much time educating the customers. Most of time they did go for the analysis, but I can tell that some customers had some issues.

 

So we came up with this strategy. If we feel that there is an issue, we offer the customer a complimentary scan to get a direction where we need to go. We fully explain that depending on what we see with the scan you will be looking at “X” amount for the analysis fee. And after the analysis is done, we will discuss the repair. We have an easier time with this stadegy and the customer feels like we are looking out for his best interest.

 

We try to see this from the customer’s point of view.

 

As for you scenario of my customer out of town; this industry is so all over the map, I can be worried about what may happen in that case. We get challenged on procedure every day, because there are no standards.

 

You propose standards, that’s all well and good, but that will take some doing to accomplish, if it is even possible.

 

Does this make better sense?

Makes perfect sense Joe, and YES I totally.... TOTALLY... believe there should be standards... and yes... it would very hard to ever think it would be standard across the board... But, hey, we can dream.... right now it's close to a nightmare... LOL... just kidding... But I see your point. and I hope the rest of our readers get involved and put theri comments out there... the more input we can have the more likely we may acutally solve these issues... It's not me, it's not you... its US... that will make the difference in the future of this business. ... I hope I'm making sense...

Let me try again to express myself. I am not suggested we offer a free diagnosis. Nor do I want to follow the path of AAMCO by advertising “We’ll check it for Free”. Nothing is for free, we all know that. My entire business model is predicated on honesty and integrity, not bait and switch.

 

Consider this: How many times has a customer (old or new) come to you with a check engine light and before you rolled the car in the bay you went through an entire presentation on the complexity of the system and all the charges associated with the analysis only to find that the gas cap was loose?

 

Or, what about a customer that is on her way to work and the check engine light comes on, but really can’t leave the car. Tell me none of you ever scanned the car just to give her peace of mind?

 

Here is the concept: Explain to the customer that until we access the error codes, we do not have a direction on what tests we need to perform. Offer to the customer the initial scan with the understanding that after that scan is done, we will explain the necessary steps needed to complete the actual diagnosis. We tell them that this scan is not in any way a diagnosis. We actually give them a price range before hand.

 

I know that there will be those times that the customer will say, thanks for the info and goodbye. But we take that chance every time we try to sell anything.

 

I feel that this approach helps to comfort the customer. My analysis charges are more than the local dealers in my area. They come to me and pay more because of the value and service we offer.

You know, I feel this discussion is really making a difference, Joe, thanks for letting me post my article on the subject. It's really got people tallking... and I think, that, is, the best thing that could ever happen.

Now, my take... which by the way... is my version... of course we all have our opinions... but hey, that's what this is all about.

My take on all this.... a Joe, your baiting them... oh come on Joe... you know thats just a polite way to put it.... you're baiting them and hoping they come in for the repair. Your not calling it that, your being as thoughtful to the customer as you can be.... and I think it would be affective... but lets play with this a little... Here's another scenario that needs to be considered. Let's say you have a regular customer that you see every other week with a lot of cars, maybe even a fleet. He is out of town and can't get back to your shop. He goes to a unfamiliar shop... they look at his vehicle and they charge him a diagnostic fee straight up front.... I can just see the guy going balistic... because... he is not use to the charge... and thinks this guy must be ripping him off.. .... well, now what. Oh, he is a loyal customer of yours and he comes back and tells you all about the rip-off artist he was at.

But, lets look at it this way..... if (IF) there was a standard policy on diagnostics that was across the board ... would there be that much to bitch about... if everyone in the independent market charged... "something" for the diagnostics and didn't hide it in the cost of the repair ... maybe.. just maybe people would then consider it normal business practice. And not be so quick to call us all crooks for doing our jobs.

Keep this going ... I'd like to hear every angle on this subject... everyone has a thought about it... come on... tell us... I'd like to know, and so would the rest .. I'm sure of that.

I think it would have to do with who the customer is. Mr. Powers has 5 vehicles that I service. He comes to me with a check engine light on, I will read it for free because he has spent thousands of dollars with me and will be back and he will send customers my way. Mrs. Jones who was referred to me by her friend at the beauty shop and her check engine light is on and I have never seen her vehicle before, I will quote a diagnostic fee.

CarMan.... You got it... that's my approach... I'm not a high traffic shop, never intended to be... but I would like to think professional courtesy is important... and that professionalism goes both ways.... Mr. Powers in one direction, because he keeps the bays full... Mrs. Jones... I would like to think that as a customer you should never expect something for free... I like the way you stated this issue.... congrats!!

No, think about it. Let the customer see value first. Let them know you are looking out for their best interest. I have to tell you, my advisors are spending less time defending themselves and more time selling DIAG work.

 

Just think about it. A customer says, "My check Engine Light is on". You tell him that it will be "X" amount to do the analysis. The customer "thinks", you have not even looked at the car yet. All I am saying is that we change our approach.

 

What if it just a loose gas cap, you never checked the car and they go somehere else. That may look bad for you.

 

We now say: “Mrs. Jones the check engine light is on because the vehicles’ on-board computer system has detected a fault. Depending on what the fault is, certain tests are going to be needed to accurately diagnose the problem. Let’s do a quick scan on your car’s computer to see what direction we need to go. After the scan I will explain in detail the tests needed and the cost to do those tests.”

I am telling you, we just started with this approach and with great success. We sell just has many analysis jobs, if not more now. And, we have not changed our pricing.

So just like the chain stores that will scan your car for free, your willing to do that... ok, that's fine... I'm a small shop and when I spend a couple of grand on a "code reader" and after reading the code... the customer then says... "Oh, that's going to be to expensive to fix.... no thanks, I'll wait..." where's that leave me....

""" FOR SALE ---- ONE SLIGHTLY USED SCANNER --- """"

I know I can't agree with what your saying... hey, if it works... good for you... But it sounds to me as if it's the customer that has to be educated that these tests do cost money.... and nothing in this world is free.... I'm sorry, I just don't agree with your theroy... I can't think of a time I went to the doctor... and he said "Oh, it's just the common cold, since was so simple for me to figure it out... I'm not going to charge you as much.,,," Yea, right... that'll happen...

I agree totally. I would have serious issue with that part supplier!

 

But, let me plays devil’s advocate for a minute: We all know that there is no such thing as a "Free Diagnosis". It's either bait or switch type advertising or they are building the DIAG into the price of the job. We do a lot of diagnostic work and get tons of people coming to us for check engine lights and the first thing they ask is…How Much for the Analysis?. For a lot of new customers, it’s always a battle to try to educate them. The time spent is a killer and many say ok, but don't like it. My fear is that we will be perceived as high-priced with all other services and may not have the chance to gain a customer...

 

So, here is what we are doing as an experiment. When a customer now asks what we charge for a check engine we offer them a complimentary scan to see what direction we need to go and what tests are needed to determine the cause the check engine light. So far, we have had NO issues and actually sell the DIAG time after the initial scan. We have maintained our price structure and eliminated the grief.

 

What do you think?????

Something for nothing.... ???

This goes beyond overselling...this is stealing. Plus, it make us all look bad, that's my fear.

Joe, this is another issue we talked about before... advertising..... the more money you can put out for "false" leaders, the more the unsuspecting general public gobble it up as true facts. To bad there isn't anything in place to insure that only true factual advertising can be produced. Good luck with that.... I guess my point is... some how some way the industry needs to police itself and let the general public know that it ain't "US" but some crack pot with cash to burn and who then turns it around and burns them...

Pisses me OFF... to hear about these type of bait and switch con artist tactics. Hell, I ain't perfect, but I don't mislead customers with false repairs or lies.... that's just wrong.! ! Mistakes happen and that should taken in to consideration.... but, as all of us know, when a mistake happens in the shop the customer automatically puts you-me-and the whole industry in that same catagorey as this guy from Midas.... sucks... hate it... makes me want to quit every time I think about it.

You know, every voice counts.... maybe this website is the start .... maybe we really can make a difference for the future techs, shops, and the industry as a whole.