Gonzo

Well, the followup story says the same guy owned them all that would explain the 22 stores.

that's what I meant by upper management.... some goof ball thought he could get away with it... and all he really was .... was a crook.

22 stores... this guy had a few bucks to start with.... why in the world did he think he needed to rip people off...???

My bad, I'm not that rich... so I guess I'll never understand... LOL

This type of headline is never good news for any of us:

 

California accuses 22 Midas shops in 'massive' bait and switch scheme

 

Personal finance news, advice, calculators - WalletPop

UNBELIEVABLE ! ! ! 22 shops ... all playing the same scam??? What's wrong with this picture... this sounds like upper management stuff... I'll bet it was some sort of policy that was made into standard practice and now it's caught up with them. Seems like the idea of "over selling" may have been a great idea at the board meeting, but not such a great idea in the repair shop... There again.... it's that same old saying I keep hashing out ... when common sense leaves.... STUPID... takes it's place.

It is my mission to make AutoShopOwner the "Go To" online forums to voice your opinions, share war stories, knowledge and ideas. We can make a difference if we learn that collectively we are a powerful coalition.

 

Getting back to Diagnostics charges, I believe that if we don’t stick together and charge a decent price for analysis work, it will greatly affect our ability to reinvest in future technology. My shop has a least 6 scanners (I lost count) and every time I turn around I’m buying an update.

 

When I hear that there are shops that are afraid to charge diagnostic charges or remove the charge if they get the work, it makes me crazy.

 

We are all in the same boat; we don’t work for free and need to earn a profit. We owe to our families, employees and to ourselves.

Glad to be a part of this ever growing techno world... and this web site ... I like what you are doing Joe, and I hope to be a part of it.... getting things out there and getting other shops to put their "two cents" into it ... makes it totally worth while.

thanx again Joe for letting me put my articles on the site... I think this one really hit home... Makes people think ... and thats what it's all about. thanx again Gonzo

Oh I agree. It shouldn't be free. I just dropped 2k into new diagnostic equipment to be able to diagnose easier. No way I am giving the work away.

 

I just had to update one of my scanners... Mastertech... new software, new scanner, new cables... $4500. later... wonderful... oh yea, I'm going to do this for free.... uhuh... sure... just come on by... I like spending money and getting nothing in return.... NOT!

 

thanx for the input.... glad to see I'm not alone on this. that article is several years old.. still holds true today...

You are in a tough position. Is there any chance to increase service/repair and maintenance work?

 

I am glad that you see the power of AutoShopOwner.

 

Joe, sure I could change things to where it's more service/repair for mechanical.... but, my "rep" around here is the "go to" guy for any electrical problems. Been that way since day one.... I might be able to change the shop into more productive "mechanical" repair shop, but I'll bet this aging,cranky old wise crackin,take no crap from anybody , "soup nazi of the auto world" mechanic is probably not going to changing much.. (that was suppose to be funny) I'm pretty stuborn... good hearted, and never would I cheat anybody out of one thin dime... but still stuborn as the day is long. I do a lot of custom wiring for street rods, older cars for restorations, and the typical electrcial nightmares of today's cars. I have mainly dealer scanners and not to many off the tool truck type.

My biggest disadvantage now is the manufacturers that keep changing the scanners and then I have to go find a way to get one. This raises my overhead cost up and up and up. Then you have to produce with the scanners... that's another challenge, and another story...

 

AND, YES, the "power" of the AutoshopOwner site can be a wonderful addition to the complex questions new and old shop owners have. If nothing more, than create an awarness of the issues we all have.... maybe even get everyone to think of new and better ways of running the independent side of the business. If it can do that... It's done a service far greater than one voice could ever do. Keep it going Joe.... it's improtant, it's the technology of today working for a better tommorrow.

The automotive service and repair has changed in the past 20 years to a point that it's almost unrecognizable. You know as well as I do that we need to shift to business model based on maintenance service , not waiting for repairs. Complicated diag work is not where your profit dollars come from. Maintenance and service is.

Good point Joe, maintenance, mainetenance, maintenance.... too bad that's usually the first thing people will put on the back burner when the economy drops. My shop, which is primarily an electrical repair shop takes in more diagnostic work than it does maintenance work. I guess that's why I'm so "up" on the intitial diagnostic charge... That's my bread and butter.

I figure it out and the customer takes it back to their "regular" mechanic to have the work done. Happens everyday.

But I totally agree... the service industry has totally changed from when I started... there needs to be changes... and discussing the "possibilities" in a forum such as this is not only good therapy.... but good sense.

Hope it is making everyone think about the service industry and the possibilities of the future of the business.

Your website is definitely nice and entertaining but you don't seem to promote your business?

 

The site is mainly for my book sales.... The shop, well, it does ok on it's own. I'm going to be writing columns for several magazines very soon and I needed a place to promote sales of my book and any future books. I really wanted a fun site to collect funny, odd, automotive related items. Eventually, I may even take the shop off of the site... but it helps the book image... you know, real mechanic writing real stories from a mechanic's point of view.

Most of the stories are extremely funny, thought provoking and informative.

The main goal that I was setting out to achieve is to let other shop owners, techs, or for that matter anyone else that works with the general public that they are not the only ones ever to get those wacky not-so level headed customers in their business.

Buy a copy of my book and you'll see for yourself.... you'll get a laugh from it. Gonzo

While I am in agreement with what you say, what you are proposing will be difficult. Our industry is filled with shop owners that are just hanging on for their lives. Many do not understand how giving away valuable diagnostic labor is hurting not only their business, but the entire repair industry. Then we need to consider the mass merchandisers like AAMCO and AutoZone that offer their so-called “free” check engine light check, which we know is baloney. We are fighting forces that may not ever be in flux.

 

I too would not be in business if I did not charge a diagnostic labor charge (notice I never mention time). I equate diagnostic labor charges the way a doctor or hospital charges for certain tests. Your doctor never says you need an x-ray which will take 15 minutes and you also need blood works that takes 30 minutes. No, he just orders the tests and you pay for what the tests are worth. We are too caught up on thinking time and selling time that we have forgotten what the job is worth. I tell my service advisors; “An hour of brain surgery is worth more than an hour of cutting a lawn”. It’s not about time; it’s about what the job is worth.

 

We have two issues to deal with, the public perception of our industry and the lack of salesmanship at the front counters of most auto repair facilities.

Think about this; Most service advisors have no trouble selling a hour of labor to replace front brakes and rotors on a Honda Civic that takes about 20 minutes but struggle with selling 1 hour for a diagnostic analysis that usually takes anywhere from an hour to two hours. Right?

 

Anyway, I enjoyed reading your article. Great points, keep them coming!

 

 

I'm in total agreement Joe, It's not the fact that there should be a "standard' fee... I think there should be... But.. your right ---- the forces against the evolution to the respectablity for the industry and not be considered "just a grease monkey" is probably way past my lifetime to resolve.

My entire point was to make a point.... and I think you see the issue at hand.... The guys (like myself) that are barely hanging on is no different than some private practice doctors barely hanging in there... however, they have that sheep skin that allows them to charge for nonsense. You know, it would be a total different thing if it was ... as we talked about on the phone.... IF...a big IF... educated people were the norm in the repair industry and not the so called high school drop out... that ends up running a repair shop. Some day, I don't know when... maybe after I'm long gone... the industy may see the need in handing out "sheep skins" to the techs..., but by then they automobile will probably float down the highway, and defy gravity.... so in a nut shell... it ain't going to change.... but we can dream... LOL

This is an article I wrote several years ago for a trade magazine.... I think it's still true today... Love to hear your comments.

 

Diagnostics fee or not

 

This has been an issue since day one. Should we charge to diagnose the car or should the estimate be free. Let’s define an estimate first.

 

What is an estimate?

An estimate is a list of all the parts and labor involved in making a repair. With the possibilities of adding supplements to the original estimate if other work is deemed necessary after the initial work has started.

Ok that’s an estimate, or is it…? Let’s try this again.

 

What is an estimate?

It’s a guess……. With the chance that I might get it right but more than likely the final bill will be different than what was original “estimated” at.

Hmm, the two definitions are different but at the same time mean the same thing… What about the diagnostic side? Ok, how about that… that diagnostic thing.

 

What is a diagnostic?

It is the process in which a technician is able to determine the cause or failure of a piece of equipment, vehicle, or appliance.

Did ya get that? … One more time …

 

What is a diagnostic?

It is the process used to determine the root cause of a given mechanical or electrical problem that has become an issue with a vehicle, appliance or piece of equipment.

Sounds the same doesn’t it…. hmm, maybe we are getting to the real issue… MONEY

 

The diagnostics may take some time, may even require a few sophisticated scanners, wiring diagrams, and tools. Time is money as we all know, of course, knowledge, expertise and experience is a commodity that should always be respected no matter what field you are in. A service charge for such “diagnostics” is essential in the continuing financial stability of a shop or for that matter… any service oriented business.

Once the diagnostics has been completed an “estimate” can then be given to the customer for their approval. This should also be noted that if a “diagnostics” is preformed and the problem turns out to be “intermittent” or none exciting a fee still applies. The time has already been spent to figure out that there was nothing wrong. That brings up another touchy issue. For some reason the customer feels cheated if you charge for nothing found… now wait a minute, how was it determined that nothing was wrong… ah…the diagnostics lead to that result. Then the problem isn’t the problem anymore, it’s the time spent looking for the problem that is the problem. To ease the customer’s woes you could always give them a time table for future re-evaluations. (30 days is a good round number) Note; It wouldn’t be the first time I have diagnosed a car for a customer only to find out that their complaint is from lack of understanding of their vehicle or dare I say… their just another fruit basket behind the wheel.

 

Now I’m not in favor of a free diagnostics (if you couldn’t tell already) and I’m not too fond of the free estimate. If there is any “man hours” that are part of any job a “man” wants paid. If that “man” is working on a commission basis, I can assure you that he is going to rush through the “estimate” in order to get to the real money end of the job.

However a diagnostic is a totally different thing, I don’t think I could have made a living without charging for the time it takes to figure out some of the strange pr oblems I’ve encountered over the years. Some things were easy to diagnose, some took hours. But I believe it’s the standardization of a diagnostic charge that would make things a lot easier for the customers to understand the complexities of today’s problem evaluations.

If a tech couldn’t figure out a problem in a reasonable length of time … say an hour… then it’s quite possible the shop is going to be losing money if they kept him on that job. The next best thing would be to move him off that job. Put another tech on who might be able to figure out the problem in a reasonable amount of time. Of course, the shop is already behind the 8 ball, since the first tech didn’t get the job done, but in the long run… it will get done, there will be an estimate for the customer explaining the repairs needed.

 

I don’t know which is more of a problem, the shops out there not willing to charge for estimating… Oops I mean diagnostic time… or the customer who doesn’t feel that it’s a necessary part of the process. Then again, these are not yesterday’s cars.

It’s about time there were some standards that everyone in the industry had to go by, be it from the independent side or the dealer side. Regulation or self imposed limits as to how much can be charged across the board for various levels of diagnostics. Not to say diagnosing a bad ball joint is easier than a battery drain, no, not at all. Each field in the industry would have to come up with a balanced set of standards that those involved could agree was a fair price for that type of service. If all the independent shops charge the same fees in a demographic area it would lead to a more even playing field for the customer. Maybe, we should think about using a different term rather than “independent”… we can be independent in ownership, style, quality, etc… but put the customer’s concerns up front. If I wasn’t in the business and didn’t know where to take my car I would really would like to know that I’m getting quality work done at a fair price at any shop I went to. If there was a way to put an end to the “I can get it done cheaper down the street” escapades… my drive home would be a whole lot more pleasant than in the past. .

 

If that didn’t happen it then only comes down to a question of where to have the vehicle repaired at. Everyone has their favorite doctor, dentist, or restaurant. Which is probably based on location, atmosphere, or “ya just like that particular place”. Price is always an issue, and probably always will be. If you’re not getting the job done right at the shop of your choice… choose another one. How many times a day does your phone ring because you have some “price shopper” who is never coming to your shop because your price is higher than the last shop they called… even though they were referred by a friend to call you.

Maybe we should focus on better instructional classes, more information, and true manufacturer level scanners available to the independent side of the business. Sometimes too much effort is put on the “Be nice to the customer”, or the preverbal “Customer is always right” routine. The old saying; “If the customer knew what was wrong they would have fixed it themselves” still holds true today. But I’m talking about telling them what’s wrong with the vehicle, not how to fix it. With the advent of the computer age upon us the car has become a rolling updateable, flash reprogramming software jungle of information. The cost of these specialized scanners puts them out of the range of most consumers, and a lot of small shops, which, in some ways, also places the shade tree mechanic on the endangered species list.

 

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard the same line from a customer’s after I have diagnosed a problem. “Well, I could have done that myself, I would have looked there for the problem if I had the time, and I don’t know why you’re charging me for something so simple. You should give a break on the price because it was so simple. “Hey, I’m a regular customer I should be getting a discount.” My usual answer is… “So if you knew what was wrong, why did you bring it to me to figure it out?” And, I’m not sure that other professional people you deal with such as a doctor, dentist, or the grocer…etc… is going to give you a discount just because you shop with them on a regular basis.

Common sense, the largest lacking component in all of these situations… In my opinion, once common sense is removed from the conversation “stupid” takes its place. I wonder if I could estimate how many times this has happened… maybe so… but I better think about diagnosing it first…

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