Spence

Directing you to your last sentence:

"Who loses out with these poor repairs done by mechanics who only know how to swap parts? …unfortunately, the customer."

Who loses in my opinion? Everyone except the poorly run shop that did the work. Surely the customer as you mention but they may deserve it. They probably chose the shop because they didn't want to pay to have the job done right. If they didn't know the shop was performing poor work they do now. Other shops in the area lose as well. I have seen shops that low ball price suck the life out of other shops by taking work from them. Only to have both go down the tubes because the poorly ran shop didn't get the training... buy the equipment to do the job they are doing... charge enough to make a profit so they could stay in business.

I'm sure you have had the "new" customer trying to get their car repaired come in and say "I have spent enough trying to get this car fixed and I do not want to spend anymore". I hand them back their keys and with as much professionalism as I can mustard up inform them they didn't spend a dime at our place yet. It takes proper knowledge and test equipment to determine what is wrong with their vehicle and there will be a charge for it. From there I will call them and give them the results of the tests and an amount to fix their vehicle. If that is good with them then we'll proceed. Nine out of ten will give me the keys a second time. If so they accepted how we are going to do it and understand there will be a charge for it. For the one in ten that don't... Well they deserve the shop that does the poor work and I have sent them down the road.

Saw this on another forum and thought I would bring it here.

http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11575

So what are your thoughts?

That was different.

Go figure eh...

Nice story, I liked it.

Now that gets back to customer loyalty. If this is the type of customer who isn't worried about price then there is no problem, but those type of customers are getting few and farer between.

 

Actually have a different way of looking at this... Customer loyalty can be a key factor but any customer can become a loyal customer... its up to the writer to educate and inform the customer, build trust and therefore loyalty.

 

Keeping the cost down for the client as far as awareness of their resistance to spend goes but following proper procedures is paramount and charging for them is the ticket to profitability. Diagnosis time for every concern. Apples for apples in parts quality and warranty. Your profitability in your center should be paramount that the only other thing should ever exceed that is reputation. The rest will take care of itself.. actually older cars give you from an industry average a higher ticket, more repeat business and is a great model to build something solid off. As the economic climate improves and they can afford a new car they will return to you for the gravy, 5K, 15K, 30K 60K services that drive profitability and you will further sting the dealer by keeping their FORMER client now your client happy. Keep up the good work.. Love to hear guys that are honest and do only top of the line work.. Kudos

 

Carl

A lot of good comments you make Carl. It's applying those thoughts that I think would be good to explore. We'll see...

The gravy service's are being offered with the new car purchase in many cases. People being offered Free tires,oil changes,loaner cars, etc. It's war. We must Fight the good fight for a profitable niche so that our familes and employees can live a decent life.

And what would be your ideas to "fight the good fight"? I would be interested in hearing them.

Spence

Merry Christmas everyone!!!

It was a shorted out computer, new one installed and it ran.

Thanks for the update.....

This is a constant battle in most shops, I know I struggle with it too. Some techs are so clean, you never have to tell them to keep thier bay clean. Others, are natural pigs. I asked my manager, who was once my lead tech, why some techs are such pigs. He told me that honestly when we are working and busy we never think of it. It's not like they WANT to be pigs, they just are not wired that way.

 

I think you've got a good point there Joe.

 

Create a shop layout where each tech has easy acess to drain pan, oil drain buckets, oil absorb, brooms and plenty of garbage pails. When there is a little down time, have the crew as a team clean the shop and give praise to anyone that cleans anything on thier own. We have a clean-up person too, but his job is mostly to keep the bathrooms clean, the customer waiting area and the exterior. I think, if possible, the tech should be accountable for his/her own bay. By that, I mean, stop throwing the oil filter boxes or the water pump boxes on the floor, be more carful when draining oil, get a drain pan when bleeding brakes, etc. A lot can be done, it just needs to be a concerted effort.

 

Hope this helps, it is an on-going issue for most....

Good post Joe

Hello all, I have a issue that I'd like to see how other shops handle. Currently I have not been able to find someone to hire for shop cleaning/maintenance but I am actively pursuing one. In the meantime my one master tech has not been very helpful in cleaning up his own area. He is a very good tech and amazing at what he does but works very dirty and I am becoming concerned with someone slipping and getting hurt. I completely understand that is getting paid flag hour and does not get paid for the time to clean his area, but I feel if he would just take the time to grab a catch pan and make sure the fluid falls into it instead of just sliding it under car and not looking at where the fluid goes he'd save himself a lot of hassle. Most of the time he'll just leave the coolant to run all over. I want my techs to be productive and I know the need for a cleanup person of which I do intend to hire, but would most shop owners request more responsibility of a tech to at least help keep a mess to a minimum? When the tech was hired he was told and he agreed that he was to wash and vacuum his two bays at the end of every Friday, of which lately he hasn't been doing.

 

Every time I see him cleaning something I make sure I immediately show appreciation and tell him thank you, doing a good job etc.. But I guess it hasn't caught on because he still isn't working cleaner. I really do not want to search for another master tech, but I know I can't afford tech who feels the shop revolves around him.

 

Any ideas or advice on how other shops handle cleaning and these types of issues?

 

Hope this was posted in the correct section

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

Have you had more then one talk with him about it?

Do you conduct shop meetings? If so how often?

I have brought up with our guys that the shop policy is to wipe up fluid off the floor as soon as possible. One of the reasons is the tracking of it around the shop... Getting it on the souls of your shoes and then it finds its way into a customers car. This is not how a professional should work is how I out it.

Keeping their area clean is put on their shoulders and they know it. I don't pay 100% flat rate but We also pay .5 hours a day for clean up and 1.0 on Friday. The shop must be cleaned up before they leave. If it is clean before the .5 or 1.0 they still get the time credit. It's an incentive to have it clean rather then stay longer to get it done.

Just some thoughts I have about it

Spence

Any news?

What kind of cars do you work on the most?

What type of work do you perform on these vehicles?

In your area have you researched the types of cars and percentage of them per household?

Age of the vehicles you are looking to work on the most?

Spence

Interesting story. Been there with an attorney needing so call "expert testimony". When asked I give them my opinion. When they want it to match there opinion and they are not the same I kindly inform them they got the wrong guy... Funny how if that happens and I ask for the name of the other party they just want to get off the phone...

Cloned...

Good to see this man finally put his mind into taking charge instead of accepting defeat. There's a lot to learn from that way of thinking!

Thanks for the post

Spence

OK,

Here is the complete history, I did not include it because I felt it might cloud the issue.

The 5.2 in question has been installed in a 1990 Jeep Wrangler. We rewired the harness to integrate the OBD1 and OBD2 systems, since at the time of this swap no one was making a harness.

 

Ugh! I don't think it would of clouded the issue at all. If anything it might be some of the issue. I would of preferred you been more up front in the beginning.

 

The Motor is out of a 2001 Dodge Ram 1500 2x4, it was recently rebuilt and has about 50,000 miles on it. It was running fine when we removed it from the donor vehicle.

 

Ok... You have a good engine. That's a good start.

 

I am not showing any oil pressure on the scanner, but I can manipulate the sensor and prove it works fine. I also installed a manual gauge to verify there was oil pressure.

 

Good that you verified oil pressure. You know you are not good to hurt the engine. It's now an electrical issue. It shouldn't keep this from firing up. Do you think it will keep it from starting? If so why?

 

We have spark verified from the coil to the plug, it will pop off every once in a while like its trying to start, but thats it. If you add a shot of either/carb cleaner it does nothing.

 

Have you pulled any of the plugs to see if they are flooded?

 

What is the cranking vacuum with the throttle plates closed. This next step I want is important you follow it if you are going to use rely on the results. Keep cranking it for 15 seconds and what is the vacuum/pressure reading at the end of the 15 second cranking period?

 

We verified that the signal was coming from the crank sensor and replaced the cam position sensor. Today I am going to check for sync between the two.

 

If you had spark your crank signal is working.

 

I am also going to test for high resistance readings on the ground circuit, to see if our harness has any issues.

 

Do you know how to do voltage drop tests? If so check your grounds that way.

 

I do a lot of engine swaps. Ones that mate an engine that was never in a vehicle to a different one. Instead of trying to cross between two different fuel/ignition systems we install a stand alone PCM. We then do our own programming. You may want to consider that.

In the mean time which computer are you using. The OBD I or the OBD II? Which sensors are being used and are they of the system that the PCM uses?

Thanks for the update.

Spence

According to our equipment dealer who would also be servicing this system, Hoffman, John Beam, and Snap-On are all made by one company. Does that sound right?

 

I know Snap-on and John Beam are. I am not sure Hoffman is as well.

 

I'd like to try a hunter, but from what everybody in the area says, it's nearly impossible to get the service guys to show up. Apparently the local service and sales reps for hunter in my area have had a pretty high turnover rate for some time.

 

That may be but the Hunter equipment I have doesn't go down that often. Our guys don't treat it rough either. I've had Hunter service reps say my equipment looks less then a year old when it's over 5. Taking care of good equipment helps keep costs down and profits up,

 

Spence, why do you say to avoid the target/camera systems?

 

They have issues in my opinion. I like... no require accurate readings. I have tested both the Hunter and the John Beam/Snap-on and found them to read improperly. Surprisingly both companies have the same fault. I expect in the near future it may be corrected. Until then I wouldn't own one. Their readings also drift to much for my liking.

 

It's a shame but the public doesn't know this. The BIG push has been for speed in getting the so called "reading for the print out". These readings only have about 25% of what a real alignment readings should have. Marketing to the masses and they are being lead to slaughter.

 

With the high number of auto service places jumping at these camera machines you should be able to get a good used alignment machine at a good price. Even if you have it overhauled and made like new you'll have a better piece of equipment for less.

Hope that answered your question. If not then hit me up.

Spence

I have not used the Hoffman 550.

I have used SnapOn, Bear and Hunter. I have been using Hunter for the past 35 years. I would steer clear of the target/camera systems for now.

I would also recommend training. There is a lot more to alignments then just camber, caster and toe!

Where are you located?

Spence

Nothing yet to report, have not had a chance to get back on it.

 

BTW I do have a DVOM, didn't recognize the acronym, it is a Fluke.

I also have a Power Probe it is awesome for troubleshooting electrical issues.

 

I really appreciate you checking back

Thanks for not letting us hang.

Kinda figured you had a DVOM. Which model of Fluke?

I check in once or twice a day. If you get some test results I would look forward to hearing about them.

For starters do you have spark? Not only at the coil wire but at the spark plug too.

What is the cranking vacuum reading with the throttle plates closed?

Talk to ya later

Spence

Anything? Inquiring minds wanta know...

I have a wonderful woman that has been my secretary for 1-1/2 yrs. She is excellent on the phone and good with customers but I am in desperate need of a service writer. I can't afford to pay them both. She has been out for about 2 weeks after a surgery and I had a great service writer friend help me out while she was gone. It was very nice to not have to do any estimating and not to have to answer and return phone calls. How do you experienced guys handle this? I would have to pay the service writer more than the secretary but the writer would be able to take more of the load from me. Any input?

Sounds like you are having growing pains. Which isn't a bad thing but something to deal with.

Is this secretary doing your book keeping?

How many people are working for you, including you?

Oh boy... Hmmmmmmm,

 

Do you have test equipment? Such as but not limited to:

 

Scan tool? If so which ones... Snap On Solus and Vantage, Auto Ingenuity

 

Alright then... When you hooked any of them up on a Chrysler product look to see if you have any codes. If so which ones? I don't like when Chrysler has a code they will put in a value for the PID that has to deal with that code. In other words the value being used is shown and NOT the true value. For example if you had a coolant temp DTC say open circuit. On any other vehicle but Chrysler I would expect to see -40F. With a Chrysler it will look at the IAT and mirror it during start up. Or you might see a value of 115F to maybe 140F.

 

With that said as an example I would like a PID scan. If there is a DTC that PID may not be real. Key on engine off before you even try to start the truck and if you have no DTCs then look at all values and compare to what you would expect to see. Some things would be the temperature. If this is in your shop and it is 60F then the IAT and ECT should be close. Another would be the M.A.P. I would expect something around 29 or 30 kpa. If you see something less I would be concerned.

 

Now if all those are good. Crank the engine. Do you see a rpm reading?

 

Hopefully you get the idea of what I would like to see.

 

Spark tester? YES

 

Good. Did you use it? If so did you have spark every other revolution of the engine. Not just spark when you turned the key on or off.

DVOM? NO

 

In this day and age you need one. I have many. DVOM's come with different options on different model. You need to be able to measure voltage, voltage drops, ohms, amps. and more. I would look into Fluke. If you want a couple different models I would be glad to recommend some depending on the use.

 

Test light? Duh...

 

Should I take that as a yes? If you are poking fun at me just be ready for the kick back.

 

Fuel pressure gauge? YuP

Good and I see from your response to Jeff you used it. It's just when you started this request for help you failed to give us all your test results so we could make a decision on a path to try and help you. All I saw was a lot of parts thrown at this and it didn't help. It seemed to me(with all due respect) you didn't do testing, didn't have the equipment to do the testing, didn't have the info to know what you had in front of you, wasn't trained for testing and/or had a tech that was lazy in testing.

 

Do you have anything else you would like to share that you tested?

 

Propane enrichment bottle? NO

 

I would suggest getting one. Great test tool! You could flow a little propane into the intake to see if this would lite up for a second. In place of it some carb cleaner or silicone spray could do the trick. Be CAREFUL!

 

Labscope? VANTAGE

 

It'll do. Have you used it much?

 

Pressure transducer? ?? For the oil I used a manual gauge, if thats what you are asking

 

Nope. I was asking as I use one for doing compression testing. I can actually see the intake and exhaust valves opening during the compression test as well as I use it with the engine running in the spark plug hole for a running compression and snap throttle compression. We don't need it just asked to see if I wanted to see something. No biggie.

 

Compression gauge? YES

 

Good, did you happen to check any of the cylinders? If you didn't I wouldn't head there yet unless you said the engine cranks fast and easy.

 

Also do you have an information system to look things up? If so which ones... ALL DATA

Good. I don't have AllData but at least you have it for looking up specs. Does it cover the year of this truck?

 

It's Saturday. I am at the shop are you? NOPE closed shop for Thanksgiving

 

You posted on Friday and I read it on Saturday. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving! I would of been glad to help over the weekend.

 

Jeff- Fuel pressure is good, I have not checked the sync, but will let you know.

 

JOE

Looking forward to you updating with your test results. Hopefully I gave you some things to think about.

Spence

I have a 2001 Dodge Ram with a 5.2 that will not start. I have changed out the PCM, coil, plugs, distributor cap, cam sensor, rotor. It is also not showing on the Solus scanner any oil pressure. Replaced the sensor still no luck. Hooked up a gauge to the port shows 45psi cranking. Somethings missing but I don't know what, does anyone have any suggestions? ASD and fuel relays are testing good. Any help will be greatly appreciated!

JOE

Oh boy... Hmmmmmmm,

Do you have test equipment? Such as but not limited to:

Scan tool? If so which ones...

Spark tester?

DVOM?

Test light?

Fuel pressure gauge?

Propane enrichment bottle?

Labscope?

Pressure transducer?

Compression gauge?

Also do you have an information system to look things up? If so which ones...

It's Saturday. I am at the shop are you?

Ball in your court. I'll check back later.

There is a lot of confusion out there about the direction of health care insurance and the costs of premiums. The news is filled with stories from companies, large and small, that are planning now for what they believe will be big increases in their health insurance premiums. Insurance companies will also be required to pump large amounts of money into health care program to pay for the uninsured; many say this will lead to increased premiums across the board for everyone.

 

I would like to hear from other shop owners and what they are doing or not doing with respect to health insurance.

Joe I am waiting as I to have heard stories saying it's gonna increase our expense to others saying if you have it nothing changes. I am against having to pay for others that freeloading off the "system". Bottom line is just that the bottom line. If an expense comes out of this then I will watch how that effects the P&L. Adjustments will be made to bring that percentage back in line and have to live with it until things "change" again.