Duramax DEF Limp Mode

[tirengolf]

Had one of my good customers drive up in 13 GMC 3500 duramax in limp mode. Scanned it, DEF heater code . replaced the heater went to reset with Verus , still in limp mode. I send to dealer to resett DEF, they say looks like bed ECM/BCM . I go pick up truck/ reflash at my shop with J box, take to another local diesal guy we go in with these snap on scanners, still nothing. Customer starting to get irritated about this, not pissed at me me just the whole def thing. He says, i am going to drive it 50 miles to this guy who can turn this def stuff off. I say, have at it. I was looking online at a Corvette forum about a cloned Tech 2 he purchased on Fleabay. I was like ,wth, so i 2 day aired me this $380 tech 2 scanner to my house. I literally walk out to the truck unbox this thing ,I have never used a tech 2 in my life. Go right into the heater codes , reset the 3 heaters and bingo no DEF light , vehicle is out of limp mode. I am sitting here typing this going why in the world would I pay 6 grand for a verus that will not reset a DEF light. My mind is really thinking now. My Snap on guy is a great guy although I am about to go at it with Snap On . This is crazy to me. I have zero confidence in this machine today. I really think this industry is changing so fast, it is warp speed !!!!

[HarrytheCarGeek]

Had one of my good customers drive up in 13 GMC 3500 duramax in limp mode. Scanned it, DEF heater code . replaced the heater went to reset with Verus , still in limp mode. I send to dealer to resett DEF, they say looks like bed ECM/BCM . I go pick up truck/ reflash at my shop with J box, take to another local diesal guy we go in with these snap on scanners, still nothing. Customer starting to get irritated about this, not pissed at me me just the whole def thing. He says, i am going to drive it 50 miles to this guy who can turn this def stuff off. I say, have at it. I was looking online at a Corvette forum about a cloned Tech 2 he purchased on Fleabay. I was like ,wth, so i 2 day aired me this $380 tech 2 scanner to my house. I literally walk out to the truck unbox this thing ,I have never used a tech 2 in my life. Go right into the heater codes , reset the 3 heaters and bingo no DEF light , vehicle is out of limp mode. I am sitting here typing this going why in the world would I pay 6 grand for a verus that will not reset a DEF light. My mind is really thinking now. My Snap on guy is a great guy although I am about to go at it with Snap On . This is crazy to me. I have zero confidence in this machine today. I really think this industry is changing so fast, it is warp speed !!!!

 

Ah, all about Intellectual Property if you ask me.

 

In regards to the DEF, simple chemistry:

 

https://www.cumminsfiltration.com/sites/default/files/MB10033.pdf

 

Small quantities of diesel exhaust fluid (DEF) are injected into the exhaust upstream of a catalyst, where it vaporizes and decomposes to form ammonia and carbon dioxide. The ammonia (NH3) is the desired product which in conjunction to the SCR catalyst, converts the NOx to harmless nitrogen (N2) and water (H2O).

 

And the why behind the problem?

 

Pollution.

 

Here is some interesting history to put it in context:

 

http://bytesdaily.blogspot.com/2011/07/great-horse-manure-crisis-of-1894.html

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894

[ncautoshop]

I've not experienced any issues and very primarily a diesel shop. I have had to go to the generic option and clear emissions data but I've never had any issues clearing it on any of the makes or models.

 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[tirengolf]

Harry ,You actually hit the nail on the head, Like the coal miners in WV, we gonna keep your jobs. Two thirds of the population have no idea about these issues and the controls by the powers to be. I understand the complexity of connectivity with all these different platforms. I think the inability of standardization in our industry is killing the small guy. I am frustrated with this at the moment. That is the first time I ever purchased something that was copyright infringed that i was aware of. I still pay for my music on my phone. The thing that worries me is proprietism that the franchise dealerships are forcing down the consumer's throat. I am not a full line diesel shop, I just take care of my customers, he was in a bind. The dealerships around here have these things lined up for weeks, 3 of them told him it would be 2 weeks before they could look at it. I hear about these stories all the time , it is only the 3rd one I have been involved in, the last 2 I sent to the stealership. As bad as I hate to admit it if I owned a diesel I would yank this crap off tommrrow and not deal with the issue. I do have a account who has 13 sprinters the 07 models were fine, he bought a whole new fleet in 2012, now he is having nightmares with the particulate filters,9 of these are North of 100k. Three have had filters stop up, lack of regen, or the injector line is bad. I pulled one apart and cleaned a few out. I certainely am not interested in arguing that issue with the Al Gore coalition , I just see some issues down the road actually I think they may be here . I only see this trend becoming worse. Lordy, Lordy.

[HarrytheCarGeek]

 

I am frustrated with this at the moment.

 

tirengolf,

 

You are not the only one, I am with you on the same boat.

 

 

The thing that worries me is proprietism that the franchise dealerships are forcing down the consumer's throat.

 

The way I understand it, it is not the dealerships per se. It's the whole way the economic system is structured. That's why it is important we get involved in the Right to Repair movement.

 

 

As bad as I hate to admit it if I owned a diesel I would yank this crap off tommrrow and not deal with the issue.

 

This tells me you don't understand the fundamental issue behind emission control. That's too bad because you could really prosper by servicing vehicles that need to be maintained to keep from spewing excess poisons.

 

We know the compromise, we want to drive but not enough to pollute us all out of existence.

 

We are really in a tough spot, we want to play Capitalists as a society, but what we have is a very corrupt society where the very privileged few want to privatize profits and pass the cost and liabilities to the public.

 

We have a crisis of ignorance, the majority of the people do not even have the necessary basic knowledge to know what's in their best interest. Having a car that meet a minimum of safety and pollution control is a cost that impacts your and my quality of life. No one knows this better than anyone that has been to polluted China, Philippines, India, Mexico City, etc.

Edited October 31, 2016 by HarrytheCarGeek

[tirengolf]

The way I understand it, it is not the dealerships per se. It's the whole way the economic system is structured. That's why it is important we get involved in the Right to Repair movement.

 

 

Harry, you bring up interesting info, until the industry performs sccurate emmisions data , they give data as passing the test but actually it all changes when the vehicle hits the road / aka VW. The profession I chose to be in, at 15 years of age, gets to deal with this economic structured system you speak of,

 

 

This tells me you don't understand the fundamental issue behind emission control. That's too bad because you could really prosper by servicing vehicles that need to be maintained to keep from spewing excess poisons.

 

No, I guess I never looked at it through the eyes of the tech like I should, I always have seemed to have looked through the consumers eyes, my customer. I have never lived in a state with emmisions testing. I have never took converters off cars and installed simulators on o2 sensors. I prefer not to go to prison. The consumer is the looser, always will be. I personally had rather not capture profits on the backs of crooked political machines. Basically the testing is corrupt, that is widely known. They have it down to a science . Follow the money. What I am trying to say is simple , If I put myself in a customer position with this diesel truck , I woke up one morning , it says add def fluid, I filled it up , goes into limp mode countdown , sorta feels like prisoner going to the electric chair,, DEF countdown. LOL , I drove it home myself 2 nights with those you got 42 miles left lights and beepers blasting, Then shelling out 2 to 4 k just to get it out of limp mode at that particulare time does a DEF tank really matter . Heck no, the customer has lost 3 days of work , 1500 a day, therefor the tumbling effect kicks in , family obligations, employee's being cut back, because I can't get jobs estimated because all my stuff is in the truck, you know the drill. The truck is about to implode because it says the DEF system is not working when in reality no one has the ability , knowledge or the correct tool to reset the lsystem, remember I took it to the dealer first tech said it needs a BCM/ PCM whatever, I was fumming and just said I will come get it. This is the whole issue Harry, they are not being straight up with us or the consumer. We are a thorn in their side. Thay hate guys like me. The Franchises want that $150 to $ 200 a hour rate and a shop like me to stay out of the way.

 

 

This Franchise dealerships have made a plan to eliminate the small guy , thank goodness for the right to repair act, it has helped a little bit so far. How would you suggest a guy get involved with The Right To Repair Movement ????? Who can I write to, call, or send a $500.00 check to. All I want is not to wate time , energy and money .

 

 

 

 

I will tell you and be honest about the issue of automobile technology, I did not grow up underneath the hood of a car. I am not a Master Tech , like most of you guys on here. I started at this place in 1975, we only did tires, brakes, and alignments. I busted tires for 5 to 8 years . I was blessed with common sense. I do know PROFIT is not a 4 letter word. I have had to learn this stuff just by being around it and keeping my eyes and ears open also a wide open mind. I learn something new everyday. Yesterday I trued 4 tires for a old guy that says no one does that anymore. I just laughed, maybe I am the fool here. I think one of the biggest deals today is the lack of honest shops that feel the actual pain of the consumer. My custommer base is huge , actually to big. I think our industry is exploding and about to really get large although the obsticals in front of us are mounting, fighting these big guys, I am talking about, as some would say Wall Street, I ain't going down without a fight , The Consumer Will always be the looser. I guess at the end of the day , I am just a old Tire guy trying to feed my family, have a little bit left over. Although the number 1 rule in my book is "Ethics and Honesty" I will never waver on those values as long as I am breathing. It is just the way i was taught. Thanks for your input, sometimes we get stuck in a one dimesional way. I am gonna spin and play devil advocate with this emmission stuff, educate myself farther, I probably really do not want to know the whole truth behind it all. What the Heck. Shoot , I gotta go to work, have a good one my friend. David

[Don Walcheski]

GM Duramax DEF - NO Problem. Use GM GDS software $575 yr loaded on your laptop and your J box, you'll have everything the dealer has. I work on lots of these in ambulances.

 

We've always had the "Right to Repair" as mandated by the Clean Air Act - all one needs to do is "Belly up tho the Bar" and purchase the software. Go to the NASTF site to learn more. I hear guys complaining about the technology but then never see them in any classes.

 

It's time to start acting like professionals and start charging accordingly.

[HarrytheCarGeek]

until the industry performs sccurate emmisions data , they give data as passing the test but actually it all changes when the vehicle hits the road / aka VW. ... David

 

David,

 

I don't pull wrenches anymore, but still i try to keep up with the technology and innovations to stay up to date.

 

Last week one of the local BMW dealers sent us an 2010 x5 d35 that would not pass emission inspection. They had replaced several parts, from the glow plug control module to the urea heated primary tank. It had no DTCs active nor pending, but it would not set the cat, heater, and egr readiness codes.

 

I scanned it, no codes, I reset the system and took it for a test drive with one of the junior techs, on the drive as I watched the scanner five of the monitors set, the prior three I mentioned didn't set. What did I find?

 

I found the engine was running too cold for the chemistry to take place. The vehicle needed a thermostat.

 

The next day I received a call from their service manager, he asked me how did I found out what was wrong with the vehicle? Simple, chemistry I said. He wasn't happy with my answer, although replacing the thermostat fixed it.

 

The moral of the story? If you know what you are doing, you can make things look easy, what he didn't understand was all the time I have spent understanding the technology behind the scenes.

Edited November 5, 2016 by HarrytheCarGeek

[tirengolf]

Harry, I should have never touched it. I am not a master tech like you guys. I started in this 40 years ago as a tire buster working for my dad at the shop. As many times as I have had them bite me in the rear, being a nice guy, I stil find it hard to turn a customer down. He was in a jam, I usually can fiqure them out just takes me more time and agravation because of my lack of knowldege on how it atually works. I called 3 GM dealers first, I know them well, they said it would be a week before they could look at it. Funny actually the BMW store here dropped a ceryified car off Friday wanting me to find a shake. I should stick to my vibration correction skills. I will learn one day.