skm

I honestly don't think this is really a very good topic for this forum... Why does it matter who one's choice is? I have observed so much crap and hatred among people who were on the very same page until a topic like this one comes up.. How about we keep these topics for our personal FB or other social media outlets and let this forum not build arguments and animosity among its members. We are all here because of out careers, how about we share those things with each other, and not our political beliefs ?

What other benefits did you offer him? Is it possible that he is getting some very good health and retirement benefits from the dealer as well? I know that where I work I have been there 26 years. I get 191.00 towards my health insurance which is over 600.00 a month, and I only get 10 paid days off a year and no retirement what so ever.. After 26 years I am probably a very bitter person about this but I won't work for a dealership so I guess I am stuck with what I have..

I hear this same argument a lot from mechanics, and not at all saying that it is your case because clearly it is not , but MOST that state what you just did are the ones that can't pass the tests.. I am sure you are an exception to the rule and you could, i'm sure pass these tests if need be.. Just like anything there will always be to sides to the fence.

I have been writing letters to many people trying to get things changed.. I am too a ASE master tech with my L1, master emission repair license and my state inspection license.. 26 + years of experience . I work with two guys who are not certified or even know anything about diagnostics or fixing to days cars , although they are paid the same as me and one guy is only 22 and has no schooling or training and knows absolutely nothing about cars.. I agree with you full heatedly but I seems to be an dead end . I never receive any responses from any letters I write including ones to ASA! I have ranted on this site too, about the need of certifications and laws to protect the consumers as well as getting the public to know what it really involved in auto repair these days.. the problem is all the hacks that under charge and steal from these customers.. I am sorry to say that I don't think there will be any changes during your or my career .. Any way my hat is off to you !! I will continue the fight but I get tired of beating my head against a wall.

Good one Gonzo, When a customer comes to me with a code someone or themselves have pulled and say they know the problem, I ask them why did they not fix it them selves if they know the problem.. Then I put it in layman's terms as easily as possible for them to understand. I let them know there is a diagnostic charge and that will stick and that my scanner costs a little more than the 19.95 they paid for the one at the parts store and there is a good reason why.

I need to be able to see what all sensors and actuators are doing understand what the computer is seeing and how it is reacting.. I put it to them like this ...

A code you pull from the computer is like a number on a door, you open that door then there is a huge hallway lined with doors all with numbers say 50 doors per side, now behind one of those doors is the problem, we can open each door one by one say for 50 bucks each or you can let me diagnose where the problem lies and open just that one door. Which would you like me to do?

Some people have the knack and ability not to damage a car so badly that it can't be fixed, and they are the type that "if" there is a problem they'll pull over.

The ones that keep driving even after the temp gauge is on MAX are the ones that can't get a car to last until the last payment.

Some people take more responsibility for their actions and their cars.... some don't, they just like to blame the next guy... or mechanic.

So true,, but wait.... you put brakes on my car 8 months prior to it over heating, why didn't you fix it then, so it must be your fault.. LOL wait that is a whole different story.. As I always tell them I dropped my crystal ball a few months back and it broke sorry, I was unable to for see the future this time.

If you can't please them, then at least please yourself!

you can't please yourself in a lot of those situations that could land you in jail LOL

Okay granted I am not a shop owner at the present time, but I have been a mechanic for 26+ years. One thing I hate and have seen a lot of problems with is "up selling" how about addressing the customers main complaint then making recommendations. That customer may do the work then or come back in the future to have it done. Building a customer base should be priority . You can eat a lavish meal today then starve in the future or eat a good meal for the rest of your life. Up selling turns more people away than you may think. Don't you hate it when you go to the store to buy something and the sales person tries to sell you everything under his roof? well don't you think your customers feel the same way ?? Think they really want to come back to your shop?? Now I know I am about to get a huge backlash of posts, but this is my opinion and I have a very large and loyal customer base because of it. Once again I don't own a shop I don't have that mentality of needing more money . I like to help people not see how much I can get out of their pockets. You can give a man a fish and he can eat for a day or you can teach him to fish and he can eat for a lifetime .. Just my 2 cent.

Good one Gonzo! I think that the regular mechanic needs to start paying the top notch guys a consulting fee. Or maybe the top notch guy can just charge the regular mechanic just a little extra if they do the diagnostics for them

That is extremely common on pre-96 Toyota/Lexus vehicles. If one comes in with weird issues, especially if someone has already thrown parts at it, that's usually the first thing we look at. Probably have seen this 5-8 times now in the last couple of years. Check rebuild services on ebay. For a little over $100, you can send them out and have it repaired

I have actually replaced a few capacitors on the ford 9al computer in the past.. not to bad to do the worst part is getting the coating off of the boards. I am to lazy to do it now a days unless it is my own vehicle. Just like the days of the growlers testing the armatures and replacing brushes and voltage regulators on alternators and starters. Just slap a rebuild in it.. those days are over LOL

well as usual the other shop wants to take the credit for the repair, they will put a computer in it. I just charged them 2 hours diagnostics . That is the third car I have diagnosed for them the last two weeks. I told them them next one I am going to up the labor since they should be competent enough to do it them selves and since they are taking the credit I will charge more next time. I will boost the hourly rate on diagnostics for them. I hate to build another shops reputation, but I will not bad mouth them to the customers either so I figure that is a fair trade.

I had a 93 lexus ls400 come in been at another shop for a while now, they could not fix the problem. The car would run and drive fine if you were very easy on the gas. If you gave it a good load it would buck and go crazy. Would set a code 41 tps circuit. Of course obd1 not so much in the way of data stream etc.. manually checked tps sensor passed no problem , checked the continuity back to the computer no problem. Found leaking capacitors in the computer.

Yes....had to go with OEM.

yeah that was my next step, There is something fishy about them maybe they mixed up the diesel and gas specs in the aftermarket.

Has anyone come across a problem with getting the correct radiator for these trucks? I have ordered 5 different radiators with all the same problems and also every single radiator I have gotten has been open box. Which leads me to believe there is a problem with the specs on these radiators. Here is the problem, they are 3/8 " quick disconnect for the trans lines and they have an engine oil cooler on the other side tank, all that is fine but when it comes to the upper radiator hose there is the problem, all the new ones come with 1 7/8" inlet and outlets, the old radiator is much smaller I didn't measure it but I would say it is maybe 1 9/16" . The stock upper hose and the 2 new upper hoses I got are all the smaller diameter on both ends about 1 9/16th they have no hose that they can find that is 1 7/8" on one end and 1 9/16 on the other.. what is the deal? Any truck guys out there come across this problem what was the solution? The truck has the 8.1 liter engine in it

Most people are honest, but there are those that aren't ... Funny though...it's usually that type that think ALL mechanic are dishonest.

 

 

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Then there is the dishonest mechanic that make people think that way and gives us good ones a bad rap.

Great article Gonzo ! my thoughts exactly, I actually emailed two letters the other day , but as usual no response. I think by this time they have a filter on my emails straight to file 13 LOL. That won't stop me, it is sad when you work with the same guys you are writing about, only difference is they don't have to take the cars very far they just hand the ticket to me or just keep coming up to me , "hey I have this code or the car is doing this, what could it be?" of course I give the huge long scenario of what it could be and have you checked this and that and what readings do you get on this? Then I get the owner coming to me can you take a look at this car it has been her for almost a week now..

I live in a state (Florida) where if I decided tomorrow to be a barber, I would not be allowed until I went through and training and licensing process. After all there's sharp tools involved and the customer might get cut.

Our credentials and certifications will not start to mean anything to consumers until it is necessary to have credentials (under state law) in order to take money for putting brakes on someones family sedan. And if your caught taking money for repairs without a license, you're busted. The technology is too advanced, the cost of failure too high, and the risk and danger to consumers too great to allow a novice to do what we do for less money without the consequence of liability. It's true certifications are no a substitute for experience, knowledge of theory of operation and down right grit and grime under the fingernails. But I believe credentials are a key component in delivering us from the status of grease monkey to automotive service professional. We need to shut the doors to those who either don't or won't qualify themselves.

I'll give an example of a mechanic named Frank. Frank started out as a mechanic in the Army and after four years went to work for a local Chrysler dealership. Frank was what you call an A list producer. He was put to task at the dealer rebuilding engines in the Florida Highway Patrol cars. (Yeah baby 440ci Chrysler) He would pull the engine, tear down, renew bearing and gaskets, valve job the heads and reassemble and back in the car...in one day. Frank went to plenty of classes provided by Chrysler and the dealer receiving his certificates of attendance. Later he decided to leave the dealership and open his own shop. You might notice this is a story not uncommon to many in the industry. By the time I met Frank he was burned out with fixing the cars and running the business. I bought his business and Frank went off to another career in landscaping for a while. We stayed in touch and a few years before Frank turned 60, he asked me to hire him. That turned out to be my first encounter with an A lister technician. It was breath taking to watch him. No longer doubting his engine overhaul in a day, I watch Frank run circles around three 20 year old technician somethings. But what I learned also was He had learned some bad habits, though he wasn't aware. I watch Frank one day doing front brake pads and asked why he didn't open the bleed valve when compressing the caliper piston. You can guess his answer, "well, I just always done it this way". I pointed out to him that the right answer on the test is to open the bleeder valve. Now some 40 years and Frank didn't know. He had never taken a test that gave him a broad view of industry standards. It's not that Frank didn't want to do the right procedure, he didn't know because he was never taught that an ABS control module could come back and bite you if you squeeze nasty brake fluid back up in to it. Frank was always nervous about taking tests. Had he more years ahead of himself in the career, I would have personally tutored him to make sure he passed his test and become master certified and have a title worthy of his experience and ability.

At any time, in any shop, as you know a simple misstep, and suddenly you've ruined some expensive part. Mix the wrong fluids together and you've got a serious science project going on. I believe the time has come to move our industry into the realm of professional services. No more hacks. You're either a pro, or your working towards becoming one.

I have written many a letters in my state trying to get things passed, but the letters end up in file 13 I am sure . You never get a response. after 26 years of repairing cars and keeping up with certifications and latest repairs it drives me crazy to see all the hacks and BS self proclaimed mechanics out there. What can be done at this point I would say nothing, I have tried and will keep trying , but unfortunately it does not look like anything will get done. You need a license to do anything even as you stated to cut hair , but fix a car that could cost people serious harm or death and none is needed ... hmmmm a little ass backwards wouldn't you say?

Nice Gonzo, two weeks in a row stories that I preach on a daily basis and am so fed up with.. But, I not only have to preach to the customer the other "mechanics" and owner as well. People say just find another job, but I deal with several other shops in the area and they are the same sending work to me after they have emptied the customers pocket trying to fix the problem. I also use the doctor analogy for " appointments ", you always get "what is it going to cost, how long will it take, can I make an appointment then"? well no I don't know what is wrong, once I do If parts are needed I have to order them, I don't know how long that will take to get the part here, then I don't know how smoothly the part replacement and programming if needed will go. So no. I then use all the same doctor analogies, asking them how many times have you made an appt for say 8:00 am at the doctors and you end up getting out of there at 10 or so because other patients took longer than expected? Same thing with cars I can not make an appointment, so If they ask again which they always do, I say sure I will give you an appointment. What day can you leave you car with me all day? That will be your appointment. Mechanics at the shop say that I am not the norm, well what I do should be the norm if you want to fix cars for a living. If you hired someone to paint a room in your house and they do an awesome job , masking everything off , filling holes, using drop clothes, etc. The next time you hire someone else to do it, they come in just throw paint up on the wall unevenly spread paint , drips, paint on the ceiling, trim work, and on the floors , would you accept well that guy was not the norm? No ! The "not the norm " needs to become the Norm! So until the not norm becomes the norm the good mechanic will suffer, things need to be changed, public awareness of what our job is really about, laws put into place on who can work on cars such as being certified etc. Every other profession such as plumbers, electricians, hvac, DOCTORS, taxi drivers, computer repair, etc... must be licensed or certified . A few of those jobs are wrapped up in our job , but there is no standard law in fact there are really no laws at all where I live , as long as you can say " I am a mechanic " you are. I will stop my rant here before I ruin my weekend LOL .. have a Great weekend everyone !

WOW!! Great article !!!! sounds like what I preach every day at work and what I have ranted about on this forum , and also in the chat LOL.. Now that is a story that needs to be in one of your magazines... Yes and shop owners there are far to many that go for the low labor for customers.. I could go on and on but I won't since I am still wound up from chat tonight LOL..

why are you guy not hiring around me LOL ? ASE master tech, L1 State inspection license and Master emissions license 25 years experience still working at the same shop. Way under paid! lol

HAHAHA! love it Gonzo GREAT story this week!

mmotley, you are welcome to use the picture, no I have not seen "Monsters Inside Me"

customer complained of foul odor, poor air flow and loud noise. This is what I found HAHA! I did find a few deceased mice in the mix as well. The car had been parked for almost a year.

I was a master tech...was being the key word. I took a lot of pride in that. BUT as years passed and I saw adds in all the trades and not a one in anything my wife or mother read I dropped them. What good does it do if the avg consumer does'nt know what it is or stands for. When they start promoting the certification to the public then I will recertify. As a side note I never studied and took all 8 in one setting.

Jeff, I sometimes feel as you do , why keep up with them ? I am master certified with my L1, master emission license and state inspection license, People notice my certificates as i work on their cars as mine are hanging above my tool box. I am the only one with certifications at the shop and have been for a very very very long time, so i guess they don't feel a need to display them. The only use the shop has is using them for cheaper insurances etc.. I get no benefit from that either. I have paid for every single test out of my pocket and get no recognition for them by my work place. As you I don't study and have them broken up in a 3 year stretch I get a few years in between where I don't have to retest. The funny thing is I recertified in L1 about a year ago and at the test center the lady said Congratulations you are going to get a big raise you just passed the L1... I laughed and told her no I past it over 10 years ago that is a recertification and means nothing where I work. I just keep them so when the time comes I will use them to help secure a better position somewhere.

That's pretty much the thoughts I had while writing this article. So many guys are out in the work place that have no intention and no desire to learn the newer technical stuff. Oh, they'll try and bluff their way through it all... but it doesn't take long before they're way over their heads.

 

The big issue is that there are a LOT more of these type of mechanics out there than the average person even realizes. These are the guys that makes it tough to charge for diagnostics, get the required hours to be billed for repairs, and worst of all... give those who are doing things correctly that "ear tag" of rip offs and "all mechanics are alike".

 

What I see (after all the years I've been doing this) is that most people tend to ask for prices on repairs and base where they are going to get their car serviced on the assumption that price is the only factor. I probably get a dozen calls a week that ask, "How much" ... and you can guess the usual outcome.

yes and there are way too many bluffers out there! We can't only blame them though for making things hard for the properly trained mechanic, there is the owners that allow it and the customers that don't know what is really involved in a proper repair. Is there a real way to inform the public? probably not ASE or equivalent certification is one way but ask the general public what ASE is and you will probably get a look of "huh". When someone takes their car to a shop they "assume" the person working on their car knows what he or she is doing. Just like when you go to a doctor you assume they know what they are doing and give you a proper diagnosis and treatment. Unfortunately this is not always the case and more so in the automotive world of repair.