SHP Bobby

I'm at $40 for a full service (up to 6 quarts house brand), $30 on a oil/filter only, and I offer a "take home DIY kit" that goes for $20. I don't really sell any of the DIY kits, but when the customer realizes that I can do it for only $10-$20 more than he can do it himself it makes the service an easy sell. After looking at how much I'm burning though on rags, cleaners, pigmats, etc, I started adding shop supplies to all of my tickets. $3-$5 for most jobs, and $1 on oil changes unless I'm offering a special that month. Easier than trying to bill out something like .5oz of sealant.

BP had to hire outside administrators to deal with the claims. There has been numerous delays due to backlogs on their side. So they are definitely being overwhelmed. But patience and persistance pays off... My customer is due to have their claim settlement within about 3 days. The knocking was not reported to me the first time I spoke with the customer, only post-service did he mention it when I asked if it had knocked on start-up before. I'm sorry if my statements were confusing, I did try to clarify in my later post. Sometimes I get ahead of myself when trying to explain things. That's why I'm a mechanic and not a public speaker... or a politician. I did ask fairly pointed questions before I brought the vehicle in, but I definitely learned that something the customer thinks is unimportant (cold knocking in this case) and fails to mention can be critical information. I'll definitely remember to ask questions a couple different ways to make sure they aren't forgetting to tell me something, or leaving out details they think aren't important. I very very rarely offer to provide anything for free, but this was an extraordinary circumstance. I'm certain this customer will not take advantage, so I'm not too worried about that now. I don't like to profit if the customer ends up in worse shape than when he came in. That may not be the best decision business wise, but it proves my integrity. My customer has decided to replace the vehicle and wants to pay for the work I've already done. I appreciate the input. I've definitely learned something and hopefully somebody else that reads this thread can benefit too. Thanks!

I agree that their tactics have hurt the average shop. Many people have programmed themselves to just ignore what the quick lube guys suggest is just a "trick" to get more of the customers money. Many customers assume regular shops are the same. I have a family member that owns an independent quick lube (which also does regular service). I can say absolutely that he treats his customers well and doesn't try to "oversell" or use "tricks" to pad the bottom line on an invoice. He sells on good service and honesty. Not sure if he's the exception, or the rule... but he's proof that not all of the quick lubes out there are bad. It doesn't help any of us that a quick lube chain (Jiffy Lube) is advertising here in Indiana with a commercial depicting service shop and dealer mechanics as "Mad Max" style maniacs riding toolboxes and engine stands while chasing customers down the road.

Joey - There are (or at least have been) several Atlas machines. The "good" models are made for them by an Italian firm called RAV and are pretty good machines. I tested a couple units and found them to be pretty accurate (within 1-2 10ths of a degree). This was using an Atlas scissor-type rack as well. Nicest thing about them was that you could buy a calibration bar and recalibrate them without paying for a service call, and you could run the whole system from any one of the wheel sensors. Pay close attention to the different models, though. They had some lower line ones that were from a Chinese outfit that made pretty good tire machines, but were new to the wheel alignment scene. Those cheaper machines would probably be ok for a low volume guy, like someone that does restorations or works on his own, but for the everyday hard use of a shop, stick to the better Atlas models if you do decide to go with them. At the time I was testing them, the better models could be identified by their 4 color coded controls. Don't know for sure if they are the same now. It's been a couple years ago. I used to work for Greg Smith (GSES), the US distributor of the Atlas Edge machines. I did technical support and a little product development for them for a couple years (wheel service equipment mostly). They are ok to deal with on most things, but they don't have the field rep support like Hunter or some of the other guys. However, the RAV reps here in the USA were helping them with additional field support on the Edge machines when I left GSES about 2 yrs ago. Can't say if it's changed since then.

BP has a claim system in place. They were pretty quick in setting things up, but I don't think they realized the size of the problem. I have already provided the estimate for the bad fuel related costs, and we are just waiting for a response to the claim. My research in regards to the symptoms caused by the BP gas has only provided vauge answers. Apparently, the damages have varied from just a tank and fuel system flush to an entire fuel system job (injectors, pump, filters, regulator, etc.). The car was already knocking on cold startup before it came into the shop. It became much louder and constant after the service. The customer didn't mention the prior knock until after I called him post-service. Likewise, he did not inform me of the BP gas until later. I don't believe I did anything wrong during the service that caused the knocking problem. Like I said, the only thing that could have made its way into the engine was the anti-ratte parts inside the upper plenum. Everything else was accounted for, and the lower intake was cleaned out before the upper was reinstalled. I found the bulletin after the service while trying to diagnose the cause of the knocking sound. If I had found it before hand, I would have approached the job differently and probably would have refused it. If parts can come loose inside the intake plenum just as a result of tipping it aside during a simple tuneup, that's a headache I don't want to deal with again. Too easy for the worst to happen. Spence's post about "let BP pay for they problem and the customer for theirs" makes sense because they are unrelated problems. The intake issue presented itself only after fufilling the customer's request to service the vehicle. It may have occured on it's own after driving over a rough set of railroad tracks... or it may have never happened for years. That's something everyone involved can only speculate on. I already took the "extra mile" approach and offered to "eat" the labor on the repairs related to the bulletin. The customer is still happy with us so far. My only fear is that the cost of the parts will be greater than what he can afford, and that may encourage him to change his attitude and try to blame me for the problems in an effort to get his car fixed. Not that his financial problem is really my problem, but I still feel empathy for him, and also want to avoid a lawsuit or insurance claim. But, with business being already slow, a "freebie" is impossible.

Yeah, Xrac... situations like this are always a joy! My customer has filed a claim with BP based on the estimate I gave him to fix the fuel related problems. Guess we'll wait for their response and go from there. Anybody else have vehicles in their shop recently with the bad BP fuel? Just wondering so I can get a better idea of the symptoms. I'm sure this is not the last one I'll see over the next week or two.

Welcome aboard... I just found this site too, and it's really helpful. I'm a "one guy" shop in a small town, and I have witnessed the slump too. Things have been especially ugly in the past two months. I've noticed that even the larger shops in my area that everybody has went to for decades have hardly any cars, but the tire guys seem to be getting by ok. I think people are just putting off spending money on maintenence because the economy is uncertain. I look for things to pick back up after the election, when businesses and people will start to have some idea of how much cash they will have left to spend again. Until then for some of us it will remain pretty tight.

Welcome to the site, David. Don't beat yourself up about letting that tech go. It sounds like if he had stuck around his work ethic would have continued to decline because he was unhappy and just would have given you more long term headaches. When I ran another business in a different industry (a LONG time ago), I had to let go of a really great guy with a lot more experience than me because he kept showing up drunk. It kept me awake at night for a while because I wished I could have found a better solution. It wasn't until after he was gone that I learned from my customers how much he was hurting the business. When your guys have problems, customers notice. Sometimes you can fix the situation with an employee, but sometimes you just have to end it and move on. As far as the workload, all I can say is hang in there and don't give up. I have found in my own life that most of the time if I can break a problem down into smaller short-term goals and give myself a reasonable amount of time to do them, the situation as a whole doesn't seem so huge anymore. Maybe you can still find another tech in your area. There is a lot of folks looking for work everywhere. The right guy will come along eventually. Even if you have to settle for a guy that's a little less experienced than the one you lost, the main goal is getting you some time to finish school. Maybe you can take classes at a slower pace or something. One of my worst tendencies when I was young and trying to run a business was the "it's easier to just do it myself mentality". Don't fall into that trap. If you've got people under you that you can trust a little, try delegating out a few more simple things and let them know you're doing it because you think they are trustworthy. The guys in your shop may begin to respect you more for it, and that will help with the "time crunch" you're facing. Just my $0.02+...

Gotta first say "hello" to everyone. I am new to the boards and have been in business for myself for roughly a year and a half. This site is a great resource for the "less experienced" shop owner like myself. Now, to get on topic... I have a 2003 Kia Sedona that the customer reported random stalls and mild engine knock/rattle on startup, as well as "funny" engine sounds. I myself did not hear the "rattle", but the engine ran poorly when I brought it in and sounded "gurgly". The customer requested a basic tuneup and diagnostic, which I agreed was a good place to start since it was VERY overdue for this kind of service anyway. When I pulled the plugs, they were so worn I was amazed they would still fire at all. I finished the tuneup and re-fired the engine to check my work. After a few seconds, I was greeted with a loud rapping sound. I immediately shut it off and began going back through my work, making certain every bolt and nut were accounted for in case I had dropped something into the engine. Everything was present and accounted for, so I am very certain I did not drop anything into the motor. Then I discovered that Kia had issued a bulletin regarding parts of the variable intake system falling into the engine and causing loud noises and damage. After tearing down the upper intake, I discovered the intake butterlies were still intact, but the anti-rattle parts seem to be missing. Must have been loose already and became disloged inside the intake plenum while moving it around during the tune-up (I had tipped it over 90 degrees several times, but had not taken anything apart in the upper plenum at all). Sartup would have sucked it right into a cylinder. Ruh-roh... I explained the situation with my customer and got the approval to dig deeper and find out the full extent of the problem. The customer at this point does not think I am at fault, but has hit his financial limit with this vehicle. It has 185k and nearly worn out already. Now the quandry... The customer contacted me today and had discovered he had bought some of the faulty BP gas sold in Northern Indiana (as well as Chicago, Milwaukee, and parts of Ohio) shortly before bringing the vehicle in. The faulty gas has been rumored to cause loud knocking in some cases, but I cannot be sure because BP is keeping their mouths shut and just addressing the claims as they come in without acknowledging what the possible damages that could occur are. I think this vehicle has had the "Kia intake problem" and the bad gas issue almost simultaneously. I'm afraid BP will reject his claim if they know other circumstances are involved, but I'm certain now that the original symptoms were most likely from the bad fuel and the rest has been a chain of misfortune for my customer. I really want to help this guy. He has been very patient and has even offered an apology for bringing in such a difficult vehicle! My reputation is my livelyhood here, so any sage advice out there for a troubled newbie?