Spence

At my shop we always use the FINE setting and balance to .1 oz. instead of the normal .25 and that makes a HUGE difference. If the tires are within .1 oz. static AND dynamic (both sides) they should be smooth to just over 100 mph (I amateur car race in case you were wondering). Other than that I would agree with the above post!

 

steve

You can balance to .1 oz and still have a bunch of vibration from road force variation. We do that and check the 1st. 2nd and 3rd harmonics on all tire/wheels we do as well as lateral force. I wasn't wondering but I also race. Drag and road racing.

Spence

Now we are getting somewhere!

This is a great discussion.

 

I agree, just dragging out a bit.

 

Lets see if I can answer some of your responses.

 

Ugh... Some? Alright we'll go from here then.

 

Thanks for laying it out in an easy to understand format.

 

You're welcome. I try and make it easy to understand what I am typing being as we are not sitting across the table from each other.

 

The target is and always was to increase membership and grow ASO. Just to put it into perspective, we have been online since 2006. Lets just say we made some changes and only got it going by 2009...in that time, we have 1360 registered members, of which many do not participate.

 

Got it! I may expand on this thought later. Ahhh hell here's a bit on my thought. You are driving members up yet not keeping them involved. We can dwell on that later.

 

The ads that run on this site are mostly default ads from Google Adsense that generate very little and are based on clicks (if anyone is familiar). You want to help ASO? Click on an ad...lol. They are somewhat uncontrollable and based on page content and past browsing on your pc/device as I mentioned earlier, but we can block certain ones if we know what they are. Collectively they amount to help pay for a server to host this site, thats it (more traffic would obviously raise the ad clicks). But then there are software and licensing fees along with any upgrades we need/would like to do that all require funds (just like the overhead fixed costs in any business), which come from the limited premium membership fees we collect. Maybe its a misconception because of how ASO looks and feels (shameless plug)....we are not quitting our "day jobs"...lol.

 

So it's generating some income. I do NOT have a problem with that! PLEASE keep it in mind as you seem to have tunnel vision that all I (and maybe others) is the FREE. Let it go!

 

We also hope that if members want an "ad-free" experience, they support ASO my purchasing an annual membership at $99. I'll even go as far as say we'll extend an offer to anyone who would like to try it! Just PM me. Our membership packages are located here.

 

You have not answered a question I have asked more then once. Look at my reply numbered 32. Right where I started to say "I think you are to focused on the word free" and keep going down the part of the reply. That whole section is the meat of my reply and you have over looked it. Which brings me back to trying to get an answer again.

 

By bringing in "organic" search engine traffic, we hope to bring registrations and participation. If we close off the forums, we will not get listed in ANY search engines (except for maybe the main page/domain) for the topics at hand and will not get any new registrations and/or participation. If that was our goal with ASO, we could just start a facebook or yahoo group and go off of invites and tap into an existing user base.

 

Going back to the top of this one. The ones you are getting are NOT staying. It's like having a customer base at your shop that you retain few customers. The dwelling on it part might help the issue. Listening to the people you wish to keep you may see a lot of them do NOT like the open to the public part of the website. As I have mentioned I am about to pull the plug on posting my thoughts here. Who knows that might be a good thing. Keep in mind typing a response you can not always tell how the person posting attitude is. Some you can... I am not torqued in the least. I calmly am posting this is something I see as a possible issue. Having the site split with a public vs people of our industry could be a nice angle.

 

I'll wrap this up with this thought....If there is desire, we can set up a private forum category for those who are concerned about posting and revisit in a year to see how it goes and expand on that if needed. We can call it "Shop Owner Private Forums" or "Premium Member Forums" or something like that and restrict it to premium members only.

 

That is what I am speaking of above. You may have gone to far to the other extreme but there could be common ground to help the cause.

 

I hope you and everyone else sees that we are willing to be flexible and cater to our member base, but if we close it all off, we would need to charge everyone a membership fee which other sites like this one, do not do as they remain open to the public as well.

 

As mentioned further back in this thread, I belong to others that do it and have on the same site free but only to people of the industry and a paid side. Just as the customers that come into your shop they need to see value.

Going back to reply #32 I thought I would make it easier to get a response to these to help move this along.

1.Thank you for your offer but correct me if I am wrong. With a paid membership the ads are still there, it's just me that doesn't see them and the public still can read the responses. Is that correct?

At least for me this way takes away from the value. I know it has held me back from at least a half dozen posts I would of made about how brakes are seviced, handling customers looking for finacing and others.

2.What else is extended with this paid membership other then me not seeing the ads?

Thanks again Alex!

Thanks for the response Spence.

 

And yours as well Alex.

 

Although you have some well thought out points, I suppose we can't please everyone.

 

I understand but if you look back through this thread find me one that does. That should be an eye opener for ya.

 

You are currently registered as a free member here on ASO, so I'm not sure how much more value for your money you are looking for. If you want an ad free experience, again, you are welcome to upgrade your membership. If you don't see value in $99 for a year...for an "ad-less" experience for the amount of time you are online, I'm not sure I have a solution for you, sorry. If you'd like to try it out for a month, I'd be happy to extend that courtesy to you. You are welcome to PM me to discuss further.

 

I think you are to focused on the word free. I thought I gave you and others reading this some good reason for the "kind of ads" being ran.

 

Thank you for your offer but correct me if I am wrong. With a paid membership the ads are still there, it's just me that doesn't see them and the public still can read the responses. Is that correct?

 

At least for me this way takes away from the value. I know it has held me bacj fro at least a half dozen posts I would of made abot how brakes are seviced, handling customers looking for finacing and others.

 

What else is extended with this paid membership other then me not seeing the ads?

 

As far as private forums, our forums used to be closed off to the public a few years back, but that proved to be unsuccessful as we did not generate any traffic until we opened them up and made them unrestricted to search engines.

 

My first question is it the kind of traffic you wish? It doesn't seem by the number of those showing an objection to be... Next I did not find this place by search engine. It was an invite from another member to check it out.

 

There are other ways to if you wished to have SEO hits but that is not the meat of my points I and others are trying to make.

 

Now, I have to tell you from an online searching point of view, I can't imagine a non-automotive person waking up in the morning and searching for an "Autel" or "how to pay technicians"...More than likely this site is not coming up in their searches.There are over 800 million sites on the net, someone has to be searching for the specific topics for us to land on the first page of the search engine and generate a click to this site. In addition, if they do land on our site, they most likely leave once the the content was not what they searched for entirely.

 

Then just what is bring the traffic? Are you looking for traffic or members? Is the traffic to help the members in the way of bring good people to share their thoughts or just ad money? Is the traffic hitting the target you wanted? Just what is the target? I don't see this as a good reason to have it. Again looking back at the other posters comments it's the privacy that seems to be king.

Thanks again for the effort Alex. I hope this clears up more how I feel and maybe others as well. Have a good day.

 

Spence, thanks for your comments. As the co-founder, let me explain a bit on these 2 points you made.

 

Most of the ads likely show relevency to the post/page being read or a user's past browsing experience. The ads and limited membership fees help keep this site up. There is a $99 annual membership available that will give you an "ad free" experience if you like, otherwise ads will show for free and other membership levels. Contrary to popular belief, running a dynamic website is more involved than simply purchasing a domain from GoDaddy and throwing a page up. We need to have some sort of revenue stream to support it.

 

As far as keeping the site open to the public, the main reason for this is search engine indexing. Google, Bing, Yahoo and others will not index a closed site. If a shop owner or someone else searches for a term on Google, we want to be found and increase our relevency, registration, and participation. We do not advertise, so we depend on organic search results. Ideally, we should be found by terms searched in a search engine online (this is why topic titles play a big role as search term keywords).

 

Hopefully this sheds some light on these two issues you brought up.

Thanks Alex for your response. Lets take a look eh...

You seem to narrow in on two so you say. Lets start with what you mention above. In the sceam of things you and the "co-founders" seem to feel a need to help "Auto Shop Owners". Hell it's the title of the website. I get a flood of thoughts on just this thought.

1. Does it help them when the public can peer in on thoughts that an "Auto Shop Owner" feels and wishes to discuss without having the public view it until he or she has a handle on the thought. I don't see where it does.

2. Is it constructive when again "Auto Shop Owners" are discussing how bad it is for these $X.xx oil changes are for the customers of the motoring public and the "ads" hone in on the title of that topic and flood the page with discount and low ball oil changes. Again I don't see where it does.

3. I can get rid of the "ads" on my viewing page if I am willing to pay $99.00 a year.

a. Does it get rid of the adds for what I write so it remains private or just so I don't have to see them? My thought is it's the latter. If so then the problem is still there.

b. I need to feel a value for my money. So far I don't.

c. I am on this site/forum and 4 others for a total of 5 regularly. 2 of those are set up as public/private with a way of keeping the 2 seperate. The other 2 are full private. The ones with the most particapation and best value of conversation are the total private. followed closely by the public/private one.

d. Of the 4 mentioned sites in "c"... All are free. Go Figure

e. If you wanted income from the site you could consider sponsors to run ads. Ones that would consider having the people that own shops nice to be in front of.

So there you have some food for thought Alex. Thanks again for your post.

Having never turned a wrench the point of view of a technician is always of interest and educational since it is information that can help me potentially in dealing with and managing my technicians.

I agree. Having industry related people involved with discussions is worthwhile outside of that I don't think it's constructive.

Hmmmmm, I've never thought about this type of situation... Can't help but feel you have gone through this before. GRRRRRR, sounds like I need to loosen my grip on my wallet and buy a freaking leak detector kit

Cool so I got you to think. So if you have a "CHEAP" consumer... And they installed this crap... For the sake of conversation the leak is a hose... So you drain the half charge left in this system into your equipment, You replace the hose. You did a proper repair and recharge the system with the proper amount of refrigerant but being as the evaperator and/or the condensor is not functioning correctly due to being clogged... This system doesn't cool properly...

Now just who do you think this CHEAP CONSUMER is going to blame for what they feel was a poor service because they now paid for it... Just who do you think they now want fixed for ahhhhhhh... FREE? Oh but you now are back pedaling trying to say they need more parts to fix this vehicle and you want more money...

I said if this is not handled properly they will EAT YOUR LUNCH... Oh yeah and I'm sure they are talking good about you to everyone they know...

How we doing now?

I guess I was echoing what others had said up above

 

ATSAutomotive, on 27 Jan 2014 - 5:24 PM, said:

Almost seems like you are frustrated with your own team. Something going on you want to talk about?

 

No offense to the original poster. I just got a little lost in the whole thread. I agree it's a place for shop owners but I feel the techs have good valuable information. Has anyone considered a tech section to the website? It's probably just me and the way I receive information but I felt that it got a little ranty but it is a valuable thread and worth discussing.

 

"I'm saying running a business is not easy and this site is as I understood a place for shop owners to get together and talk, complain, give advice or whatever else is needed. If I wanted a techs advice is ask for it which I do every Friday when I take the whole shop to lunch. It's ignorant not to hear what everyone thinks for the most part, just not here at ASO. I certainly don't want my guys signing on here and complaining or even giving advice."

 

This I can agree with and see your point Phynny.

Sean thanks for your comments. I am glad you made them instad of just a rant. I looked at the title of the thread and not you phynny's opening post. I gave my views on what I might be look for here and whom I would wish or not wish to view my comments. Just as you may not wish to have your tech's venting their views about you. I will limit my comments (and others may also) about what they would say being as this website is being viewed by people that do not have an proper perspective of where an "Auto Shop Owner" is coming from.

I would have ideas on how it could maybe be set up but does it really matter?

 

Is this a trick questions, because I'm not very good at riddles. The fix-o-can didn't work ... i.e. the leak stop didn't stop the leak / fixed it too late / wasn't the issue in the first place / etc.

Don't mean for it to be a trick question. It was meant to make you think. By answering it you will have come to the conclusion made by your own answers instead of me just saying this is the way it is done. Hell you might not like the way I say it is done and who am I to say something should be done that way in the first place. So if I comment and we discuss it I might turn the light bulb on in your head to a thought of how you want to handle it.

Now to get back to my question. If the leak is not fixed the car probably is low on refrigerant and not cooling as the consumer wants on the hot day they are across your (or my) counter. If it is a leak that is causing it not to work then it will be empty soon and you won't have to recycle it into your machine. There was an "IF" at the beginning of that comment. What does the sealant do? When it works on clogging leaks it will also start clogging up EVAPORATORS and CONDENSERS. If you do not understand A/C systems and are only a shop owner and not a tech then ask your tech what happens if a either or both of these clog up! The system will NOT function properly! Keep that thought for the next paragraph.

I ask you now the same question I did in reply #13. Do you want this person for a customer? Is this a trick question... Well here's some thought.

1. If they are of the cheap kind of customer they are going to eat your lunch if you handle this wrong!

2. If they bought the car this way from a used car lot of private sale you have a chance of making them a customer if you handle it right.

I'll let you dwell on that for a bit...

 

Haha, they're across the counter from you. The fix-o-can from AutoZone didn't work, so now they're at the shop.

Another part of your comment is more then likely true as well. You say it didn't work, Explain what you mean by it?

 

Haha, they're across the counter from you. The fix-o-can from AutoZone didn't work, so now they're at the shop.

Seems you may have a handle on this... So now the question isssssss... Do you want this kind of person as a customer?

Thanks, Jeff. Good to know, I'm going to ask the rep about an all-in-one unit.

 

Spence, how do you service A/C systems where you do find sealants, though?

Wes lets think about it for a minute or two here. Just who do you think would put this sealant crap in?

Seemed like the woman were enjoying it a bit to much...

We have used the Neutronic's system for a little over two years now. Have caught more then a half dozen with the sealent in the vehicle system before we hook up. I will not let our guys hook up without testing and if they find any trace they are instructed to not hook up any other A/C equipment,

I would recommend purchasing the tester and using it.

Spence

Seems like a lot of frustration going in here and it makes whatever point people are trying to make muddled

In what way Sean? The issues those have posted seem clear to me and not muddled at all.

If someone has a thought and/or is frustrated how would one handle it?

Ok, this is Joe, Co-founder of ASO. I can see both sides of this issue. AutoShopOwner was created for Shop Owners to share and exchange ideas and opinions, to help the industry raise its image and to provide a forum where we can collectively help each other.

 

I must admit, I did not expect techs to join ASO, I felt they would feel more comfortable with IATN and other tech forums. With regard to techs joining, my thinking was that maybe there are techs that will someday be shop owners. I was once a tech that became a shop owner. And, maybe if they had ASO back then, it would have helped me thru some very difficult times. So, although techs are not our target demographic customer, I did not exclude them for the reasons I stated.

 

I do agree with one thing, being a shop owner is vastly different from working as a tech. That’s not to say techs don’t have issues or opinions. And that’s not to say that techs don’t have things they can share. All that I ask is that we need to keep ASO true to its brand and if techs are to participate, they need to defer to the experience, trials and tribulations of what shop owners live and breathe on a daily basis.

 

In the end, we are all here to help the industry, to raise the bar. I am committed to that cause and to all the members of AutoShopOwner.com.

 

Joe Marconi

Joe I have found two things very dissappointing with the website. The open to the public and the ads that are on this site. I see no reason for either.

1. I have no issue with people of this industry being part of the disscusion and it's just my take on the subject. I am fine with mechinics and equipment people being involved but when you let the public look over our thoughts without having an understanding of the business and industry other then from their point of view... Well I think it does a dis service to us and is not a help. In reading your opinion above I get the thought you feel tech's would not have the same backgound knowledge as a shop owner but ask them to "keep ASO true to its brand". I think how most of the public views it is how they could use it to their benifit not ours.

2. This leads me into the "ads". Why would I as a shop owner... tech... or equipment person wish to have a coupon for a cheap oil change found ran on this site? With out a doubt this is a target towards the public. And/or a profit for the owners of the site. I don't see how that lines up with the mission thoughts of the site or helpful to any of us as shop owners. Would you wish a local customer of yours seeing the coupon from your area and going to the quick lube place for substandard service instead of heading to your shop?

Joe I know this is a direct comment at you and the "co-founder" but where better to direct it... I enjoy the discusion and try to give good input to my posts but... I am almost to the point like the show Shark Tank where the investors comment "I'm out"

Your numbers really don't work and being a tech you really have no idea about what satisfactions are and your comback numbers. Most people don't complain, they just don't come back so in reality you don't know the failure rate of the rotors. Two-hundred and fifty bucks for turned rotors and front pads is certainly not any kind of a deal in any town I've ever seen.

 

Explain what you mean by "Your numbers really don't work" please...

 

Before you go out and say " being a tech you really have no idea about what satisfactions are and your comback numbers" I would give ADealerTech a little more credit and ask him a question about it before just shooting him down. He may know more then you give credit for. Have you been in his shoes? See instead of me just saying you're not in his shoes I ask have you been in his shoes.

 

$250 bucks for a good job is a deal! $125.00 for a half ass job is not and it's half the price.

 

Dealerships and Independents are from 2 totally different mindsets. As an independent I can and do refuse work or installing parts I do not believe in when working on my customers vehicles. I'm there to provide a needed service to my customers vehicles and I will only do repairs that will do that. A dealer doesn't turn any work down that a nickle can be made from.

 

On certain things they are two different mind sets. With customer pay jobs they are one in the same.

Look forward to your reply.

Care to elaborate as this doesn't make sense to me?

I would be glad to! Any particular part of the comment you wish me to focus on?

I find it ironic that this website must sell advertisement and that the advertisement I see twice in this screen is for a $10.00 off coupon and Jiffy Lube. Just doesn't seem constructive to me...

 

Spence, could you elaborate on this a bit more? What are the differences between the various generations?

Sure Wes,

The 1st generation had a small roller then the later versions. I believe it was 4 or 5 inches in diameter. Don't hold me to that but what I can do is measure the diameter of mine tomorrow and let you know. The later versions were almost twice the diameter. The lateral force was an option. It can not be added to an existing model even of the same generation. Well worth the extra money to have that option.

Do you replace rotors more than machining them?

As you can see I am not xrac. My take is you are to "true" all rotors to do a thorough and proper brake service. This goes for re using or replacing them.

Thanks Dustin will do!

 

I've been looking at the Pro Cut a bit more closely, I had a customer recently with a stoptech big brake kit. Has some weird wear on his rotors due to him not driving the car very often. Those rotors are probably in the $400+ range. Got me thinking about an On Car Lathe. I have always debated on how to set apart our brake service from the rest of the competition. We are a German Specialty shop so most of the services we provide are catered toward those car makes and customer generally know they can't get the same service elsewhere even at the dealer sometimes. Brakes on the other hand I've always debated on how to sell since a lot of franchise shops offer crazy deals as well as other chain stores. I know for a fact no one in my area does Rotor Matching and if what is advertised is true, if I can put of a better job and ensure no comebacks and 100% satisfaction I am very much interested.

My suggestion is do not try and compete with franchise shops. Or the other shops, or the dealers for the matter. You can put a better job out then the others you mention here. If you do that then the competitions is over with. Your job then is to make sure your customers you have now and the future one know it. From there you will be leading and they will be left scratching their heads to try and beat you.

 

I don't know how yall feel about used equipment, but I've seen quite a few of these 2001-2006 Road Force balancers reconditioned with new spindles and screens on Craigslist for $4000 - $6500 with warranty. Still pretty expensive, but it beats paying $14k for one.

There are at least 4 or 5 generations of Road Force Balancers. The range of years you post are of the 1st and 2nd generation. Though better then other brands new balancers in my opinion. The 1st gen I would pass over. The 2nd and 3rd could serve you good. With lateral force then you would be in pretty good position

As far as the cost goes I'm not sure you are considering this expense properly. There are profitable and non profitable expenses. I put this one into the profitable category.

Are you a tech/owner or just a tech?

We have owned road force balancers for 10+ years now. Wouldn't think of mounting a tire/wheel combo without it. The oppertunities to find and correct issues is many. One of the best ROI of any piece of equipment I have seen.

I looked at the MaxiDas and others. I am not sold on the MaxiDas. What vehicles are you looking to service with it?