Catalytic Converter High Failure Rate

We sell a fair amount of catalytic of catalytic converters. In the past we have not had a real issue. We had 6 failures of replacement cats since fall 2009. Our supplier has told us he is not seeing a lot of failures. He actually recommended a seminar on diagnosing cats (a little insulting). I told him that after the second cat, the car is ok, so why is my shop and not his cat?

We don’t replace a cat just because we have a cat code; we go thru the diag procedures to insure that nothing killed the cat. We are now going to the dealer, RELUNTANTLY, to purchase our cats.

I know there are many cat companies out there and this may not be a valid question, but has anyone else seen a rise in replacement cat failures?

We sell a fair amount of catalytic of catalytic converters. In the past we have not had a real issue. We had 6 failures of replacement cats since fall 2009. Our supplier has told us he is not seeing a lot of failures. He actually recommended a seminar on diagnosing cats (a little insulting). I told him that after the second cat, the car is ok, so why is my shop and not his cat?

We don’t replace a cat just because we have a cat code; we go thru the diag procedures to insure that nothing killed the cat. We are now going to the dealer, RELUNTANTLY, to purchase our cats.

I know there are many cat companies out there and this may not be a valid question, but has anyone else seen a rise in replacement cat failures?

Not a problem here but we do not have emissions testing here so we do not probably do as many as you do. The converters that are failing are they universals or direct fits? Is it different manufacturers or just one. The only time we ever go to the dealer for a cat is if we have to have a direct fit and there are no after market cats available yet. We use to do a lot of exhaust so we have a pipe bender, torches, mig welder, etc.

Not a problem here but we do not have emissions testing here so we do not probably do as many as you do. The converters that are failing are they universals or direct fits? Is it different manufacturers or just one. The only time we ever go to the dealer for a cat is if we have to have a direct fit and there are no after market cats available yet. We use to do a lot of exhaust so we have a pipe bender, torches, mig welder, etc.

The cats we use are all direct fits. We have tried 2 different part supplier (I cannot mention their names, of course) and we have issues with both suppliers. I do not want to go the dealer, but I don't want comebacks either. The cats that were not available from the aftermarket and were purchased from the OE dealer, we never had an issue. Which leads to think, there may be a problem. What I need to do is ask other shops in the area. This may be a local problem.

I can tell you Joe working for Honda for so long that if you use anything but the OEM replacement, they will come back on for cat codes. I am not sure why but I think it has to do with the aftermarket ones not being efficient enough. I don't do a lot of cats here but whenever possible, I do try to sell the oem ones if they aren't too far out of range just for that reason.

You know we use mostly universal cats because we have all of the exhaust shop stuff and it is more profitable for us. Is the failure you are experiencing related to triggering check engine soon light, performance, or failing emissions test. As I have stated earlier we do not have emissions testing or state inspections so that may be why we don't see as many problems. The issue we have to be concerned with is a rattling converter (coming apart) or performance. We do not experience very many issues. However, it is my understanding that there are only 3-4 converter manufacturers. Is that correct?

You know we use mostly universal cats because we have all of the exhaust shop stuff and it is more profitable for us. Is the failure you are experiencing realted to triggering check engine soon light, performance, or failing emissions test. As I have stated earlier we do not have emissions testing or state inspections so that may be why we don't see as many problems. The issue we have to be concerned with is a rattling converter (coming apart) or performance. We do not experience very many issues. However, it is my understanding that there are only 3-4 converter manufacturers. Is that correct?

I don't know how many cat companies there are, but every time you pick up a trade magazine it seems a new company just sprout up. Many times we replace the cat due to rust through on the pipe, not for a check engine light. So, to have the cat come back with an efficiency code is a little upsetting.
It may take a month to turn the check engine light, but the only code we get is an efficiency code. And, many times we are replacing the O2 sensors too.

I don't know how many cat companies there are, but every time you pick up a trade magazine it seems a new company just sprout up. Many times we replace the cat due to rust through on the pipe, not for a check engine light. So, to have the cat come back with an efficiency code is a little upsetting.
It may take a month to turn the check engine light, but the only code we get is an efficiency code. And, many times we are replacing the O2 sensors too.

We have almost never had that problem. Most of the parts we are using come through Goerlich/Catco.

We have almost never had that problem. Most of the parts we are using come through Goerlich/Catco.

We had fit issues with a few companies. How is the fit?

We had fit issues with Goerlich a while back and stop using them. How is the fit?

Their fit is not that good but again we can cut, weld, bend, and swell pipe so we make stuff work.

Their fit is not that good but again we can cut, weld, bend, and swell pipe so we make stuff work.

That's too frustrating for me....eats up too much labor. You said you have exhaust bending equipment?

That's too frustrating for me....eats up too much labor. You said you have exhaust bending equipment?

Car-x was originally a Muffler and Brake specialist. When we bought the franchise it was Car-x Muffler and Brakes. We bought a bender and had overhead torches available in each bay and had a mig welder. We also bought and stocked about $20,000 worth of mufflers, converters, direct fit pipes, and assorted exhaust parts. We found out the first year that that model would not work. We no longer stock anything but a few basic mufflers, converters, stainless steel tips, and some straight pipe. We still do exhaust work and do some custom exhaust mostly duals on pickup trucks.

We sell a fair amount of catalytic of catalytic converters. In the past we have not had a real issue. We had 6 failures of replacement cats since fall 2009. Our supplier has told us he is not seeing a lot of failures. He actually recommended a seminar on diagnosing cats (a little insulting). I told him that after the second cat, the car is ok, so why is my shop and not his cat?

We don’t replace a cat just because we have a cat code; we go thru the diag procedures to insure that nothing killed the cat. We are now going to the dealer, RELUNTANTLY, to purchase our cats.

I know there are many cat companies out there and this may not be a valid question, but has anyone else seen a rise in replacement cat failures?

I've had allot of luck with the Borla cats, I'm getting them from WorldPac, as well some of the hi-flow magnaflow cats... but as well we're a performance minded shop, although even on everyday drivers we'll try our best to offer something better, or explain its all we can get.

We have replaced more catalytic converters in the last 6 weeks than at anytime in our history. Quite a few high end cars have been involved. What is going on? Do you think the extreme heat we have been having is part of the reason?

We have replaced more catalytic converters in the last 6 weeks than at anytime in our history. Quite a few high end cars have been involved. What is going on? Do you think the extreme heat we have been having is part of the reason?

i don't think it's the heat. I have had seen a high failure rate too, that's why I posted my concern. What bothers me is that alot of these cats were not replaced due to cat failure, but rusted thru. There was no check engine light before, but they came back with a cat error.

Something is up and we need to find out.

i don't think it's the heat. I have had seen a high failure rate too, that's why I posted my concern. What bothers me is that alot of these cats were not replaced due to cat failure, but rusted thru. There was no check engine light before, but they came back with a cat error.

Something is up and we need to find out.

I am seeing a high failure rate on the factory cats.

I am seeing a high failure rate on the factory cats.

Factory cats? Oh, please...I switched to selling factory cats to avoid the issues with the aftermarket.

Factory cats? Oh, please...I switched to selling factory cats to avoid the issues with the aftermarket.

Joe, I don't know if I am making myself clear. These are not cats that we have ever replaced before. Rather it is vehicle where we have diagnosed converter problems or where someone else (think dealer) has. Our exhaust sales the last two months have been higher than they have in years due to the number of bad converters.

Joe, I don't know if I am making myself clear. These are not cats that we have ever replaced before. Rather it is vehicle where we have diagnosed converter problems or where someone else (think dealer) has. Our exhaust sales the last two months have been higher than they have in years due to the number of bad converters.

Oh, sorry, misunderstood. I was concerned with the fact that we were using an aftermarket cat company and the replacememt cats we were installing were failing.

Over the past 1 1/2 to 2 years we have had a pretty large failure rate with aftermarket cats using 2 different companies. We have now mostly gone with O.E. for most applications or if the customer is really strapped we will offer them and aftermarket unit at their gamble. If the unit fails within our warranty, I will install a O.E. one for the difference in price of the converter and they are responsible for the labor again. ( I will return the aftermarket cat to my supplier to get credit for it) Most times the customers go with OE and have had no issues but now at least it gives them an option. If they are just trying to get thru an emission test and do not plan on keeping the car long (which we all have heard that), they a a less expensive option.

That is our 2 cents, Tim

Over the past 1 1/2 to 2 years we have had a pretty large failure rate with aftermarket cats using 2 different companies. We have now mostly gone with O.E. for most applications or if the customer is really strapped we will offer them and aftermarket unit at their gamble. If the unit fails within our warranty, I will install a O.E. one for the difference in price of the converter and they are responsible for the labor again. ( I will return the aftermarket cat to my supplier to get credit for it) Most times the customers go with OE and have had no issues but now at least it gives them an option. If they are just trying to get thru an emission test and do not plan on keeping the car long (which we all have heard that), they a a less expensive option.

That is our 2 cents, Tim

As much as I hate it, I am going to OE cats too. I will keep everyone informed and updated. We do a lot of cats, and not just for emssions failures but also for rust thru.